Canada debt-free by 2021: Flaherty

Randy Whorewald

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Globe and Mail Update

Canada will be out of debt by 2021 and have the lowest tax rates on new business investment in the G7 under a sweeping fiscal plan unveiled by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty on Thursday afternoon.

Issuing a blanket release of the fall fiscal update Advantage Canada: Building a Strong Economy for Canadians, Mr. Flaherty said the Government would adopt a new national objective to eliminate the total Government debt within a generation.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061123.wfiscal1123/BNStory/National/home

He says the money saved in interest will be returned to Canadians in the form of tax cuts, and any unexpected surpluses will also be ploughed into tax cuts and debt reduction.

"From this year forward, every dollar of every surplus of the Government of Canada will be applied to bringing down the debt," Mr. Flaherty told the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance.....
We believe it's time to mobilize Canadians to make a national commitment to pay off Canada's national mortgage."
 

JustAGuy

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And I'm sure Mr. Flaherty will stick to that mandate for the duration of the Conservative term in office, which will be right up to the time that the next federal election is held.
 

Avery

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Jul 8, 2003
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Not debt free by 2021...

Here's what the article says:

"Mr. Flaherty also wants to cut total federal debt to 25 per cent of GDP by 2021."

To be debt free by 2021, the annual surpluses would have to be over $30 billion per year for that period.
 

dirtydan

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I think Flaherty is full of himself. For Canada to be out of debt by 2021 would require surpluses much larger than the ones the country is having now. I'm not fan of the Liberals, but John MacCullum, himself an economist of note, said Flaharty is skewing the numbers and the real debt at Flaherty's rate would not be paid down for over 100 years.

It's also interesting to not that that Conservatives are making promises that they don't have to worry about keeping. Not because a federal election is very likely in 2007, but the target dates of these promises are way off in the future. Total bullshit from the Conservatives. And I thought the Liberals were bad. :rolleyes:
 

mynameisPete

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Dirtydan,

Are you telling me that they won't be around in 2047 to see the clean environment initiatives take effect?

And they won't be around to enjoy the economic chaos from a non-defecit position in 2021?

Gee, sounds like a disappointment for them to to all this research and follow-through work to not be around to see their (our) tax dollars work.

As for this budget. To eliminate any person (country's) debt, it requires either a decrease in spending or an increase in revenues (taxes).


Either way, business life in Canada (working to save a buck) is fuitile. There is nothing left to save at the end of a day.

The governments need to give to foreign countries, forgive trade defaults, and keep bidding on projects like .. the Olympics. Forget infrastrure development or drinking water from a tap. - that's so "yesterday".

Besides, Canadians are unlike our southerly neighbors - when we need economic growth, Canada doesn't have the fear machine that keeps its citizens spending.

If we all continue to support the Bush supported, Republican backed Harper/Conservative party, all of their platforms will be a reality.

On the brighter side, after all of Harper and McKay's work, Belinda might be old enough to serve as Canada's first female Prime Minister and reap the benefits. Yup. That's the plan and you heard it here first!. (Yes it is possible that T. Domi might take over Ken Dryden's post at that time).
 

cancowboy2001

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What he actually said was ...

Mr. Flaherty said the government will adopt a new national objective to eliminate the total government net-debt by 2021.
So total debt will be balanced by total assets.

It is somewhat misleading in that some assets may be valued artificially high or could never be sold (like the parliment buildings or the national parks).
But it is the same as what Ralph Klein claimed the first(?) time he killed the Alberta debt.
 

dirtydan

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mynameisPete said:
Dirtydan,

Are you telling me that they won't be around in 2047 to see the clean environment initiatives take effect?
Yup.

mynameisPete said:
And they won't be around to enjoy the economic chaos from a non-defecit position in 2021?
Maybe Harper and his Conservatives think they can stay in office like their Ontario counterparts did for 40 years.

mynameisPete said:
Gee, sounds like a disappointment for them to to all this research and follow-through work to not be around to see their (our) tax dollars work.
They make not even be around for their promised GST cut in 2011! ;)


mynameisPete said:
As for this budget. To eliminate any person (country's) debt, it requires either a decrease in spending or an increase in revenues (taxes).


Either way, business life in Canada (working to save a buck) is fuitile. There is nothing left to save at the end of a day.

The governments need to give to foreign countries, forgive trade defaults, and keep bidding on projects like .. the Olympics. Forget infrastrure development or drinking water from a tap. - that's so "yesterday".

Besides, Canadians are unlike our southerly neighbors - when we need economic growth, Canada doesn't have the fear machine that keeps its citizens spending.

If we all continue to support the Bush supported, Republican backed Harper/Conservative party, all of their platforms will be a reality.
At the rate Harper's gut is ballooning, even his jackets can't hide it anymore, he'll pass the national debt in a few years. :D

mynameisPete said:
On the brighter side, after all of Harper and McKay's work, Belinda might be old enough to serve as Canada's first female Prime Minister and reap the benefits. Yup. That's the plan and you heard it here first!. (Yes it is possible that T. Domi might take over Ken Dryden's post at that time).
I can think of better people that should be PM than Stronach. :rolleyes:
 

dirtydan

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Randy Whorewald said:
Please don't forget its the Liberals' mismanagement who got us into the present situation to begin with. At least these guys are actually doing something to repair the damage.

And how many surplus budgets did the last federal Tory government have? Blaming Canada's debt entirely on the Liberals is like blaming WW2 on just the Japanese. ;)
 

Randy Whorewald

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dirtydan said:
And how many surplus budgets did the last federal Tory government have? Blaming Canada's debt entirely on the Liberals is like blaming WW2 on just the Japanese. ;)
DD- Perhaps you could explain to everyone here how the last Tory gov't could have managed a surplus after the decades of Liberal mismanagement.

But its the Chretien gang that really took the cake.
Remember the Sponsorship Scandal, How about the $1 Billion HRDC - they still aren't sure where the money went. Then there's the $2 Billion Gun Registry - that's only 1000 times over budget. Those fuckwads wouldn't know how to run a lemonade stand.
 

Sonny

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Randy Whorewald said:
DD- Perhaps you could explain to everyone here how the last Tory gov't could have managed a surplus after the decades of Liberal mismanagement.

But its the Chretien gang that really took the cake.
Remember the Sponsorship Scandal, How about the $1 Billion HRDC - they still aren't sure where the money went. Then there's the $2 Billion Gun Registry - that's only 1000 times over budget. Those fuckwads wouldn't know how to run a lemonade stand.
While there is no argument to Liberal mismanagement of several items, the federal debt increased phenomenally under the even worse mismanagment of Brian Mulroney's two term government - the budget deficit in his last year alone was $41 billion. It was Chretien who got rid of budget deficits, and turned the country into annual surpluses, using said surpluses to gradually reduce the national debt (the real one, not the 'net' one) and therefore the interest payments as well. There's no doubt that the surpluses could have been bigger or the taxes lower if the overall management of government spending had been better, such as the overspending on HRDC and gun registry as mentioned by Randy.

Don't think that I am a fan of Chretien, he was a sleaze; and Martin was plainly incompetent in his mercifully short stint as PM (the only thing he did right was to initiate the Gomery inquiry). Yet I do not think that Harper gets it; he is far too ideological. Harper did not win the last election; the Liberals lost due to being punished by the Canadian public, who are steadfastly and overwhelmingly middle-ground. My guess is that Harper, if he keeps his present course, will be turfed in the next election unless the Liberals choose Bob Rae as their leader.
 

Sonny

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Randy Whorewald said:
If Harper didn't win and the Liberals lost. Just who did win?? :confused:
Too Funny! Just like the Democrats didn't win, but the Republicans lost.
 

Bartdude

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cancowboy2001 said:
So total debt will be balanced by total assets.

It is somewhat misleading in that some assets may be valued artificially high or could never be sold (like the parliment buildings or the national parks).
But it is the same as what Ralph Klein claimed the first(?) time he killed the Alberta debt.
Bingo. Flaherty's full of shit. Even worse than his boss, if that's possible.

Randy Whorewald said:
If Harper didn't win and the Liberals lost. Just who did win?? :confused:
Your ability to read between the lines is impressive :rolleyes:
 

Sonny

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OTBn

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Randy Whorewald said:
Please don't forget its the Liberals' mismanagement who got us into the present situation to begin with. At least these guys are actually doing something to repair the damage.
Randy Whorewald said:
DD- Perhaps you could explain to everyone here how the last Tory gov't could have managed a surplus after the decades of Liberal mismanagement.

But its the Chretien gang that really took the cake.
Remember the Sponsorship Scandal, How about the $1 Billion HRDC - they still aren't sure where the money went. Then there's the $2 Billion Gun Registry - that's only 1000 times over budget. Those fuckwads wouldn't know how to run a lemonade stand.
Sonny said:
While there is no argument to Liberal mismanagement of several items, the federal debt increased phenomenally under the even worse mismanagment of Brian Mulroney's two term government - the budget deficit in his last year alone was $41 billion. It was Chretien who got rid of budget deficits, and turned the country into annual surpluses, using said surpluses to gradually reduce the national debt (the real one, not the 'net' one) and therefore the interest payments as well.
Yup Sonny - don't confuse Randy with the facts. Latest Govt of Canada published info (to 2001) - the highlighted years (84-93) ... Randy weren't those the Mulroney years? Mulroney wasn't a Liberal, was he? I thought Mulroney was a Conservative... wasn't he? Oh... I guess he wasn't one of them there "fiscal conservatives" :D

 

Quarter Mile'r

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Doesn't matter who's in power but I have to believe the day that Canada
is debt free is truly the day that hell freezes over and of course at
the greatest expense to the tax payer, as usual !!

I wonder if hell will give dividends on that day ! :D :rolleyes:

...........QM'r
 

Quarter Mile'r

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jjinvan said:
Uhh..

EVERYTHING is at the expense of the taxpayer, except for selling resources like oil and lumber and minerals, what other revenue source does the government have?

And if you want to go the 'resource' route for government revenue, maybe you want to take a look at what's happening in Mexico these days...
Of course I know that JJ, was just implying that I doubt we will ever
see that day the debt will be paid off, remember when we had the
debt clock downtown Vancouver, very scary for sure. Guess where they
found that debt clock, it was in the news, at a local garbage dump.
It just didn't seem feasable to remind the taxpayers day in and day
out what was going on.

Wonder if the govt had anything to do with that. If I'm not mistaken
that was during the time of Malrooney as well. :D
Didn't he be the one that sold our soul to the friends to the south known
as free trade? That's still a thorn in our side to this day.

I just don't see any Govt getting rid of our debt in our lifetime, it hasn't
come close yet and I doubt it will ever happen. Harper might be clever
enough in his trying but is he really able to do it with an election looming
in the future? Already fishing for votes is he? Wow that is fast, he's
learning quickly? :rolleyes:

About Mexico I really don't know. Did they pay off their debt?
Do you mean they settled their debt by selling tequila to the rest of the world? :D

I'm just poking fun here but what goes on in Mexico?

.............QM'r
 

dirtydan

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Randy Whorewald said:
DD- Perhaps you could explain to everyone here how the last Tory gov't could have managed a surplus after the decades of Liberal mismanagement.
Your statement, very obviously, is flawed to begin with. The assumption is made that since a Liberal government was in power that there had to been mismanagement. I suggest taking off not so much the ideological blinders but rather the more potent partisan blinders. :rolleyes:

And to answer your question, it would have been very simple, hack the budget. Any damn fool whether or not they have an understanding of finances can balance a government's books. It is merely a question of how quickly and how deep a government wishes to cut spending. Do recall that for Mulroney's tenure that the government said every year they would reduce the deficit to $25 billion. They never did. If I remember correctly the lowest they had the balls to go to was something between $28-30 billion.

Blaming the Liberals for mismanagement and so making a Tory government impotent is a cop-out.


Randy Whorewald said:
But its the Chretien gang that really took the cake.
Remember the Sponsorship Scandal, How about the $1 Billion HRDC - they still aren't sure where the money went. Then there's the $2 Billion Gun Registry - that's only 1000 times over budget. Those fuckwads wouldn't know how to run a lemonade stand.
Show me a person who actually believed the Liberals' line that the gun registry was going to cost only $2 million and I will show a dense idiot so bloody fucking thick in the head that it's a goddamn miracle that person is able to breathe.

Keep in mind Randy that ALL governments regardless of political stripe will have scandals. It comes with the territory. I suggest a little filtering out of the greatly embellished rhetoric of the Conservatives because of their deep seeded and zealous hatred of anything Liberal. That's not to excuse the Liberals for these scandals, but given the hype flung by the Tories, I suspect the truth of each of these matters has to be seen. In short I trust a Tory as much as I trust a Liberal: not at all.

Also by harping on the scandals of the most recent Liberal regime, one does project a sense of history that is, well, best left to the miracle type people I mentioned above. Mulroney had costly scandals, as did Trudeau, as did Pearson, as did Diefenbaker and so on and so forth. Trumpetting one particular party's scandals when they were the government is by no means any kind of legitimate measure that the particular party is always mismanaging things when they are the government. Such is the empty blathering of those with tunnel vision that is solely afflicted by a sense of partisanship that, again, is best left to the above mentioned miracle people. ;)