BC Election

[Cock Throppled]

Okay - the "stains on the carpet" thread degenerated into rants against the NDP - so how about really discussing the election here? Does anyone think democracy is well-served by the current balance of power? What we now have is an oligarchy. Gordon Campbell is almost a clone of the hated Glen Clark. He believes he is right on every issue, won't admit mistakes and holds complete power over everyone around him. I actually voted Liberal last time to dump the NDP, but not this time. I have seen the enemy and he is Gordo. There are ways to do things and there are ways to do things. All Campbell has done is show his spiteful, vindictive nature to his political antagonists. Tearing up contracts, The Doug Walls affair, privatizing the Coquihalla (millions wasted on planning, spinning, etc before they were forced to back off), selling BC Rail, raising user fees to recoup the tax cuts, firing hospital workers, wasting money on the provincial internet portal, wasted money on the land claims referendum, closing long term care beds before they had replacements in place, etc etc. The believers dismiss all this and more, the disbelievers can name twenty more stupid things they've done. There are socialist (not communist - the 1950's are over, guys) governments in other provinces and countries that do very well and serve their citizens just fine. To think James would go back to the profligate ways of the Clark regime is not accepting reality. The economy was helped by the Liberals, but has more to do with commodity prices going thru the roof the last five years. What would an NDP government gain from stifling an economy?
I'm a high income earner and I still believe there are humane ways to make changes, not just knock people aside because one group has all the power. If anyone here has dealt with the health care system recently you would not in any way support the status quo.

 

[check]

well said

Wish that was on front pages of all the papers in large print. The problem with most voters in this country is their memory span. They grab at the few goodies doled out just before an election. we are also pacifist by nature in this country.

 

[My Name is Mud]

Liberals vs NDP

Okay - the "stains on the carpet" thread degenerated into rants against the NDP - so how about really discussing the election here? Does anyone think democracy is well-served by the current balance of power? What we now have is an oligarchy. Gordon Campbell is almost a clone of the hated Glen Clark. He believes he is right on every issue, won't admit mistakes and holds complete power over everyone around him. I actually voted Liberal last time to dump the NDP, but not this time. I have seen the enemy and he is Gordo. There are ways to do things and there are ways to do things. All Campbell has done is show his spiteful, vindictive nature to his political antagonists. Tearing up contracts, The Doug Walls affair, privatizing the Coquihalla (millions wasted on planning, spinning, etc before they were forced to back off), selling BC Rail, raising user fees to recoup the tax cuts, firing hospital workers, wasting money on the provincial internet portal, wasted money on the land claims referendum, closing long term care beds before they had replacements in place, etc etc. The believers dismiss all this and more, the disbelievers can name twenty more stupid things they've done. There are socialist (not communist - the 1950's are over, guys) governments in other provinces and countries that do very well and serve their citizens just fine. To think James would go back to the profligate ways of the Clark regime is not accepting reality. The economy was helped by the Liberals, but has more to do with commodity prices going thru the roof the last five years. What would an NDP government gain from stifling an economy?
I'm a high income earner and I still believe there are humane ways to make changes, not just knock people aside because one group has all the power. If anyone here has dealt with the health care system recently you would not in any way support the status quo.

I cant disagree with anything you have said here. But the thought of voting for the NDP eats at me like cancer. I cant help but look at what Ralph Klein has done in Alberta. Yes, he has the advantage of an incredible natural resources, but it is how he used the money from this resource that has impressed me. Alberta is completely debt free and is flush with cash, and all citizens will reap the benefits. I want BC to be like that, and I just see a better chance of the Lib's pulling off the Alberta miracle.

 

[The Lizard King]

The problem with most voters in this country is their memory span.

You're absolutely right. After all who could ever forget about the fast ferry fiasco, bingo-gate, fat cat labour leaders and unions getting great deals while there was a mass exodus of head offices and investment (you know, the kind of things that employ people, albeit in non-union positions) away from B.C., and the generally shit-stained economy of 90's under the NDP. The only saving grace economically was the offshore money pouring in as a result of the panic in anticipation of the "SAR" agreement between Hong Kong and China, which had zilch to do with the NDP. And to those who rant about ICBC? Send a big thank you to Dave Barrett and NDP circa the 70's, also a particularly weak time for the economy that was so bad, it took the public 20 years to forget about it and put the NDP back in.

Did you catch James on Michael Smyth's show on CKNW? Every time she was pressed as to her solution to the issues she identified, her response was "well, we'll meet with people and have meetings blah, blah, blah". Some leader.

If you inherit shit, you can't turn it around overnight and make no mistake, this province was in bad shape. While I certainly agree with some of CT's post but I'll take the lesser of two evils, thank you.

 

[Osiris]

The BC Liberals sans Gordon Campbell is the best solution, but good ol' Gordo has his heart set on sticking around until after the Olympics.

You only have to look as far as the BC Liberal caucus to figure out what GC is like to work with. What other successful government has lost so many cabinet members and backbenchers heading into an election run they're projected to win?

The fact is, they did inherit a mess. It's probably less what they're doing than how they treat half the province while they're doing it that has most people's bile boiling.

Health care comments and complaints are valid. Too bad most people don't see it first hand.

You can add foresty to the list. There was a thread a while ago wondering how we can be so stupid as a province to have doubled the export of raw timber to the US for milling. BC Liberal policy change is the answer. It used to be that you had to mill the timber within a certain distance of where it was harvested. The policy was intended to support local mills and keep small BC towns employed. It was GC who did away with that legislation, which is why our timber is being trucked south now.

 

[HankQuinlan]

The positive thing that will come out of this election is that there will at least be some opposition voices in the legislature again. Giving Gordo all but two seats in the last election was, to say the least, unfortunate.

 

[PoorGuy]

Democratic Reform Party anyone?

Go go Elaine Brenzinger (Surrey-Whalley)!

 

[luckydog71]

On a flight about 9 months ago, I sat beside Gordon Campbell for about 3 hours. We talk for a few minutes during the flight and he seemed to be a very down to earth guy.

One thing that shocked me was, here was the Premier of a province traveling by himself. No private jet, no body guards, no assistance, just another guy on a plane.

By chance just a couple of weeks ago, Joe Clarke boarded my plane. He sat across the isle and 1 row back. He also was traveling on his own. He took a razzing (sp?) from the Canadians on the plane. The Americans just sat there with this look of “who the hell is he” on their face.

 

[My Name is Mud]

A pox on her house

Democratic Reform Party anyone?

Go go Elaine Brenzinger (Surrey-Whalley)!

Is Elaine Brenzinger not that MLA, who accused another MLA of touching her in a bar? It turned out to be complete and utter bold faced lie. Yet she never had the guts to apologize. She need to disappear from public life forever.

 

[thedesijack]

tax cuts

all the tax cuts there is the benefit of meduim to large corporation. On another note, atfer the ecletion we will see the sales tax increased again

 

[Cock Throppled]

From - The lizard king- "If you inherit shit, you can't turn it around overnight and make no mistake, this province was in bad shape. While I certainly agree with some of CT's post but I'll take the lesser of two evils, thank you."

I agree, somewhat with this, however my point is HOW the changes were made. Who wanted the Liberals to make all the changes at once? There was no need or demand from the public to be so cutthroat, all we wanted was some change an accountability. Campbell has lied and lied big over the last four years despite saying he wanted to be open and accountable. To my list you can add the big lie of "no expanded gambling" - half their revenue is now linked to gambling. And who expected all the closures of emegency rooms and hospitals? I think James is very pragmatic and does want to try to be more moderate and stop the ridiculous swings in polarity. You're following the Liberal (feds) belief of "better the devil I know." Doing that would never get us a change. Frankly, I favour the policies of the Greens more than NDP or Lib, but I really think they have very few credible candidates.

 

[Osiris]

Who wanted the Liberals to make all the changes at once? There was no need or demand from the public to be so cutthroat, all we wanted was some change an accountability.QUOTE]

Truth be told, the reason it all happened so fast is Gordo's foot soldiers turned to the provincial governments of Ralph Klein and Mike Harris to find out what they did, and what they would do differently if they had it to do over again, etc. etc. One regret from those Alta and Ont bureaucrats was that they wished they'd made cuts etc. faster.

Of course, like most decisions, you can't really know how different the outcome would be if you did X instead of Y, but the BC Libs took that advice to heart.

 

[dirtydan]

By chance just a couple of weeks ago, Joe Clarke boarded my plane. He sat across the isle and 1 row back. He also was traveling on his own. He took a razzing (sp?) from the Canadians on the plane. The Americans just sat there with this look of “who the hell is he” on their face.

Ah yes "Joe Who" Clark. PM for 9 months. Risked everything because he didn't get 70% in a leadership review. Lost to Brian Mulroney who's campaign spent millions on bringing in "delegates" from Quebec. Served as foreign minister and then constitutional affairs minister. Ended up being leader again.

I'm not a Tory but I always have had something of a soft spot for Joe Clark because I think he got a raw deal from that corrupt Mulroney crowd. One of my poli-sci prof said Clark has a fantastic memory. After speaking in my profs' class he remembered each question and his answers while he and the prof talked about the class afterward.

I do believe Clark was only 38 or 39 when he became PM, one of the youngest in Canadian history. He had been a MP for only 4 years when he became the Tory leader in 1976.

 

[Very Veronica]

if you can't beat 'em, join 'em

Stop complaining about corruption by engaging in it.

- Veronica truism

 

[dirtydan]

Who wanted the Liberals to make all the changes at once? There was no need or demand from the public to be so cutthroat, all we wanted was some change an accountability.QUOTE]

Truth be told, the reason it all happened so fast is Gordo's foot soldiers turned to the provincial governments of Ralph Klein and Mike Harris to find out what they did, and what they would do differently if they had it to do over again, etc. etc. One regret from those Alta and Ont bureaucrats was that they wished they'd made cuts etc. faster.

Of course, like most decisions, you can't really know how different the outcome would be if you did X instead of Y, but the BC Libs took that advice to heart.

BC provincial politics is the best example of unite-the-Right politics. For the longest time Tories and Liberals joined the Social Credit under their banner as a means to keep the NDP from power. When the unity was unravelled thanks to Bill Vander Zalm the parties fragmented, In the end they re-merged under the Liberal banner, with the party not being officially connected to the federal party.

BTW, what was the name of that dweeb who was Liberal leader before being ousted by Campbell, who then set up his own separtist party, only to join the NDP and run for leader? Gordon something?

 

[BDAClub]

Stop complaining about corrupting by engaging in it.

- Veronica truism

Yea......what she said I'm with VV on this one!! Gotta get my piece of the pie...the corruption pie.....not VV's pie......hmmm on second thought I'll take both.......greedy & corrupt

 

[mustangjoe]

NDP??

Come on, they are a bunch of fucking knobs. Have a woman run this province? It’ll never happen. Hey, don’t shit on me ‘cause I said that. That’s not necessarily my opinion; I’m just saying it’ll never happen.

All they’ll do is raise personal and corporate taxes and shovel it all into Healthcare. It won’t do a damn thing because they don’t realize the whole system needs to be revamped. Just throwing money at the problem ain’t gunna do shit. As a result of higher taxes all the corporations that have set up shop here during the Liberal stay will pack up and move to Alberta. The economy will come to a grinding halt, and all will be fucked again.

I say keep the taxes low (Liberal) and introduce 2 tier Healthcare. (Never happen tho) I don’t know what the big deal is. If I need an operation, what’s wrong with me cutting a cheque?? Nothing, that’s what. I ain’t gunna wait for years in the line with the general population while my life is in limbo It’s better for me to cut a cheque here and help the economy, because I’ll just do it south of the border if it comes down to it. And that does no one any good up here.

 

[My Name is Mud]

Female premier

MustangJoe,

We already have had a female premier. Her name was Rita Johnson, she succeeded Bill Vander Zalm after he resigned. Her reign was short, but is was a first.

 

[RobBC]

I say keep the taxes low (Liberal) and introduce 2 tier Healthcare. (Never happen tho) I don’t know what the big deal is. If I need an operation, what’s wrong with me cutting a cheque??

Okay, I'll fall for the trolling....

It causes the public healthcare system to decline, that's what. Instead of putting money into public healthcare govts decide that since the cost can be downloaded onto Joe taxpayer, why not just cut taxes, don't put money into healthcare that way since they all have a couple extra bucks in their pocket everyone loves you and you get re-elected next term. The problem is, what about those who can't afford the $$$ for an MRI, or a CAT scan, or whatever? But of course they don't really matter since the maligned usually don't vote (something about feeling unrepresented). The Liberal tax cuts for most of the province amounted to a case of beer a month. Is that really worth losing hospitals and schools over?

Even if you are as callous and self-serving as your message would suggest (ie - that you simply don't care about the less fortunate), privatization in general leads to poorer quality health care. A business is motivated by one thing -- the bottom line. If a private clinic can save some $$$ by using unsanitary methods then they'll do it. Public services are run by governments for a reason -- so the profit motive doesn't corrupt the quality of service.

At any rate, if you're so anxious to pay for health care yourself, you know where the border is.

Sorry for the flame, but I am so sick of this ignorant "why can't I just pay for it" BS that I see all the time in debates about public services.

 

[Osiris]

BTW, what was the name of that dweeb who was Liberal leader before being ousted by Campbell, who then set up his own separtist party, only to join the NDP and run for leader? Gordon something?

Why, look no further than Gordon Wilson, best known for forming congress with Judi Tyabji (unfortunately for him, not the kind of congress associated with politics).

Stop complaining about corrupting by engaging in it.

- Veronica truism

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure you will), but corruption is something the Campbell Liberals have yet to be accused or convicted of. DUI, heartless, blood sucking vampire bean counters has been a fairly common theme, but so far not corrupt.