BC Budget is a slap in the face for the poor

[Fudd]

http://www.richmondreview.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=45&cat=23&id=838360&more=

Well the BC Governments budget was announced this week and I think it is pathetic. People making 100 thousond a year are getting tax breaks while those on welfare are getting a lousy $50 a month. What kind of crap is that.

That surplus money belongs to the poor who have suffered cuts in programs and services all these years and who are the ones who really need and deserve the money.

And another thing $610 a month for a single person and $946 for a parent with a child???? Who the fuck can live on that!!!!! A single person needs at least three times that to survive. Lets forget about all those tax cuts and get the money to the poor who it really belongs too.

 

[ReluctantPooner]

The tax cut is for everyone making UP TO 108,000 per year, which includes all the low income people. So if you are making 25,, 30 , 40 thousand dollars, you get the same tax cut.

AS for welfare - people with mental illnesses should be put back in places like Riverview where they can get the help they need. But the rest of the useless bums should get off of their asses and get fucking jobs. No able bodied and able minded person should ever need welfare for more than a few months. Why should more of my hard earned money be going to lazy fucks who leech off of other peoples efforts??

As for taxes, I firmly believe that everyone should pay the exact same FLAT rate, except for people making under 25/30,000 who should not have to pay. People should not be punished for working hard and doing something with their lives. If they choose to give some of their income to help the needy, that is up to them.

 

[jjinvan]

That surplus money belongs to the poor who have suffered cuts in programs and services all these years and who are the ones who really need and deserve the money.
Lets forget about all those tax cuts and get the money to the poor who it really belongs too.

Belongs to them???

Belongs to them??

Oh? When did they earn it?

What did they do to deserve it?

Exactly what gives them the right of ownership over it?

The money BELONGS TO those who earned it, and it's about time that we are going to be able to keep more of the money that BELONGS to us.

What a preposterous idea that when I go to work and work all day and then get a paycheque at the end of the week, some of that money BELONGS to people who sit around drinking beer on their porch all day.

As far as the mentally or physically ill goes, I've always been a STRONG advocate of disability payments having nothing whatsoever to do with welfare and being a completely seperate system which is based on individual ability and need, and yes, when the NDP decided to 'empower' many of the mentally ill people in riverview by giving them welfare cheques and putting them out on the street, it was a typical leftie moronic idea.

 

[jjinvan]

And another thing $610 a month for a single person and $946 for a parent with a child???? Who the fuck can live on that!!!!! A single person needs at least three times that to survive. Lets forget about all those tax cuts and get the money to the poor who it really belongs too.

I believe that this amount does not include the rent portion which is paid directly to landlords, does it?

I have a friend who decided to retire early and is living comfortably, including rent, on roughly $1300 / month. He could be spending more, but that's what his spending budget adds up to and he hasn't gone over budget in several years.

Also, he does NOT get all the other benefits that those on welfare get such as free medications, free dental etc..

So, they do not NEED 'at least three times that to survive'.

 

[LargeLips]

I believe that this amount does not include the rent portion which is paid directly to landlords, does it?

I have a friend who decided to retire early and is living comfortably, including rent, on roughly $1300 / month. He could be spending more, but that's what his spending budget adds up to and he hasn't gone over budget in several years.

Also, he does NOT get all the other benefits that those on welfare get such as free medications, free dental etc..

So, they do not NEED 'at least three times that to survive'.

Actually yes that does include the rent ($375) up from $325 a month for single employables. Depending on the person, it can either be sent direct, mailed, out or done direct deposit. Take a look at the ministries site:

http://www.gov.bc.ca/bvprd/bc/channel.do?action=ministry&channelID=-8388&navId=NAV_ID_province

 

[scubadude]

People, I think that this is another one of those threads in which someone (Fudd) takes a ridiculous stand - that he himself doesnt really believe - in order to get things going. Maybe best not to take his bait and move on to other things.

 

[jjinvan]

There is no such thing a 'tax savings', and a tax reduction is not 'giving money' to anyone.

Taxes are always a nice big negative on your bank balance. If the government is taking less, that does not mean they are 'giving' you money, it means that they are taking less of your money.

So, if the government has a surplus, that means that they are TAKING TOO MUCH MONEY from people and they need to take less money from people. It does NOT mean that they should just give the money away like Santa Claus to people who have done NOTHING to earn or deserve it.

I agree that the property transfer tax is a total scam and should be done away with completely. Suppose you live in a $600,000 house and you have to move because your job changed. Guess what? You can't afford to spend $600,000 on your next house because you will have to pay comissions to the real estate agents to sell your house (about 25k or so) and then you will have to pay the government about $16,000 when you buy your new house, so that takes about $40,000 out of your pocket, plus any moving expenses, just to live in the exact same value house? It's crazy.

 

[jjinvan]

This is incorrect, as the more you make the bigger the tax savings. It's not the same for everyone.

Actually, from what I read, everyone gets a 10% cut in what they pay. I haven't seen the exact details yet but 10% is 10%, same for everyone.

 

[Pantsnake]

And another thing $610 a month for a single person and $946 for a parent with a child???? Who the fuck can live on that!!!!! A single person needs at least three times that to survive. Lets forget about all those tax cuts and get the money to the poor who it really belongs too.

If that's not enough here's an idea. Been around for years.
It's called a JOB!

 

[chilli]

Fix the "source" of the problem, lack of money - and you will have your solutions.

I'm not going to go into a huge diatribe on how to do it.

The way our whole system is set up doesn't work, (it's never worked) our whole lives are spent on the "hamster wheel" mindlessly encountering the same problems, trying to deal with them with the same solutions.

It's time for "out of the box" thinkers to leave a legacy for our children and our grand children that we as a generation could be really proud of.

It amazes me that the "brightest" in our country, ie: economists, lawyers have made such a mess of things, and have no clue on how to fix these very fixable problems.

The problem is that it takes out of the box thinking and real courage to stand up to lobbyists, special interest groups, and corporations.

Take everything you know about our banking system and taxation tear it down, and then rebuild it.

Then and only then will you be able to fix things.

 

[scubadude]

Really simple. Get rid of income tax. Replace it with a universal sales tax. Fairest system of all. If you want to buy a chevette, you pay the tax on what ever you paid for the chevette. If you want to buy two mercedes...then you pay the tax on what you paid for your two mercedes. Stop penalizing people who work hard to get ahead by assessing them a higher percentage of their earnings than someone who loafs around all day whining about how society has ripped them off.

 

[georgebushmoron]

Really simple. Get rid of income tax. Replace it with a universal sales tax. Fairest system of all. If you want to buy a chevette, you pay the tax on what ever you paid for the chevette. If you want to buy two mercedes...then you pay the tax on what you paid for your two mercedes. Stop penalizing people who work hard to get ahead by assessing them a higher percentage of their earnings than someone who loafs around all day whining about how society has ripped them off.

I understand why you would propose it, but a sales tax is a punishment on spending.... which means you are encouraging saving. Not that it is necessarily bad, Japan is/was the world's bank (and the US its biggest customer) because of a high savings rate. But high savings could eventually put a halt on economic development, as it did to Japan.

I prefer a flat tax rate, with no taxes for those who earn under a certain amount (that level determined by how many dependents). But as for the original poster of this thread who complains that the poor were outdone, I would have to say that those who are able bodied and refuse to work deserve to eat dust.

 

[Rod Steel]

That surplus money belongs to the poor who have suffered cuts in programs and services all these years and who are the ones who really need and deserve the money.

Its not their money is it? Why give it to them? When is the last time someone gave YOU money? Let the lazy bums work for it like I have to. If they are sick, yes of course take care of them but I see a lot of people collecting welfare who look perfectly capable of doing some work, particularly in the current BC economy where there are lots of job vacancies. I got a real kick out of the item in the news the other day where Global was interviewing a few welfare recipients about the budget. The talked to one hefty gal who was very busy rolling smokes in her subsidized apartment. She said ... there just isn't enough money being paid to welfare recipients. Poor thing.

 

[rollerboy]

I understand why you would propose it, but a sales tax is a punishment on spending.... which means you are encouraging saving. Not that it is necessarily bad, Japan is/was the world's bank (and the US its biggest customer) because of a high savings rate. But high savings could eventually put a halt on economic development, as it did to Japan.

I shudder at the thought of the Japanese shopping more than they already do.

They have multiple, 6-14 story malls attached to virtually every train station in Tokyo (the Shinjuku stop has 7), giant shopping districts, even an artificial island with its own monorail. Visiting Japan made me realize just how non-serious we are about retail.

 

[citylover]

Well the BC Governments budget was announced this week and I think it is pathetic. People making 100 thousond a year are getting tax breaks while those on welfare are getting a lousy $50 a month. What kind of crap is that.

What else is new? The war on the poor is longer than the war in Iraq, for sure.

We can't help people out cause it's too long sighted to help someone become a contributing member of society. They should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, like I did, a white sububanite from a 2 income family who got college paid for by mummy & daddy, w/o any gov't loans.

& of course we never use gov't handouts. We never use public transit, the highways, buy a car, go to businesses getting gov't handouts, go to libraries, go to schools & colleges, the harbor or the waterways, national or provincial parks, etc., etc., etc. I pulled myself up sui generis.

 

[LonelyGhost]

I understand why you would propose it, but a sales tax is a punishment on spending.... which means you are encouraging saving. Not that it is necessarily bad, Japan is/was the world's bank (and the US its biggest customer) because of a high savings rate. But high savings could eventually put a halt on economic development, as it did to Japan.

yes, but if you eliminate all income taxes on incomes below $100K, then
most people would have over 20% more money to spend, and if there is
a harmonized 'one tax' across Canada (a flat 10% for every province, GST
included) then people are still ahead of the 'game'.

As well, you do create some incentive for people to work harder, or improve
their skills or work overtime or pay bonuses because it will translate
into actual higher take home pay!

and considering that the average Canadian is now hauling more personal
debt than they are worth, a little 'savings' would not be such a bad
thing around here.

 

[jjinvan]

No it's not. What if you pay no provincial tax? AFAIK, it's 10% of the provincial tax you pay, which is based on your income.

If you aren't paying any tax, then why on earth would you get a tax cut?

just STFU and be glad that the government's hand isn't in your pocket.

If I wasn't paying any provincial tax, I'd be a lot happier than if I got a '10% tax cut'.

 

[jjinvan]

Well in all honesty the government doesn't have a surplus, because the debt will continue to increase in 2007 for capital expenditures. Truthfully, they probably should have kept the money and either applied it to this or the debt, which basically amounts to the same thing since they have to borrow to finance these expeditures.

That's not how it works with capital expenditures. If you build a road, expanding the sea to sky highway for example; while there are those who would like to believe that the road will only be used for the olympics and somehow disappear when they are over, that just isn't true.

Typically a road lasts X number of years, so when you build it, you divide the amount of money you spent by X and then spread the expense out over that many years (taking interest etc into account too).

The alternative is to put aside the money first, but then you have to wait X years before you get a road, and that would kinda suck.

 

[jjinvan]

We can't help people out cause it's too long sighted to help someone become a contributing member of society.

Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about WELFARE, not training programs or job creation programs.

Welfare does not 'help people become a contributing member of society', that's not what it was designed for and I'd be amazed to find a single example where that actually occured.

 

[Rod Steel]

Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about WELFARE, not training programs or job creation programs.

Welfare does not 'help people become a contributing member of society', that's not what it was designed for and I'd be amazed to find a single example where that actually occured.

JJ- Don't waste your time on Citylover, the left leaning condescending and argumentative socialist who thinks Exxon is a commie outfit.