And you dont think its all about oil, eh? its about freedom! democracy.. ya right.

[ace85]

England

Canada Doesn't Count.

The fact that Maggie Thatcher (second most powerful western nation at the time) was PM of ENGLAND for like 10 years matters.

Plus the Queen is a chick.

HILLARY CLinton will take a run, but I don't think she wins. Pretty hard for the LIBERAL women to accept she didn't walk out on BILL after MOnica Lewinski.

THe US POPULUS is smart enough to recognize her as power hungry and interested in her legacy. She is the type that wouldn't know what to do with it once she won the presidency.

 

[The Lizard King]

THe US POPULUS is smart enough to recognize her as power hungry and interested in her legacy. She is the type that wouldn't know what to do with it once she won the presidency.

But dumb enough to still think Iraq had a hand in 9/11.

 

[Webster]

However, I do agree that the amount of condemnation by the Muslim population of acts of terror do not seem to equal the outrage expressed in the west against extremist Christians (and politicians). You are partly right.

There's an expectation in that judgment that each side has some kind of equal access to a common frame of reference. There's a measure of heroism in being from the Middle East and being able to battle centuries of religious and governmental propaganda to condemn violence. The outrage expressed in the West is reasonable in that these guys are our own and ignore the secularism and science that built the empire for them in favour of loopy ghosts who diddle people's wives.

The mistake you have made is that you are implying that Islamic ideology is the reason for the lack of condemnation, resulting in a tacit approval. The fact is that the religion does not support this, though perversions of it clearly do.

There's a Yemeni cleric who battles Al Qaeda through debate, with, so far, much success. I'll take the solution over the problem any day, but the solution and the problem are both forms of the same sad slavish devotion to fairy tales.

 

[The Lizard King]

HEY...where's my buddy Luckydog? I'm still wanting to hear how Venezuela and Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.

 

[luckydog71]

HEY...where's my buddy Luckydog? I'm still wanting to hear how Venezuela and Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.

LK...let me try to summarize this thread...you seem to be lost and I like to at least have a debate with an informed person....

The 9/11 attacks were committed by Muslims and there was no call from the Muslim clerics that this was an evil act and should be condemned.

The terrorists in Iraq killing Iraqis are doing so under the Muslim banner...again no call from Muslim clerics or the media that these people are evil.

Pat utters a very dumb remark about assassinating the Venezuela leader and he is severely criticized by Christian leaders, by the media and by politicians.

The reaction to Pat is justified and understandable it goes against the Christian beliefs.

There is a lack of reaction to the Muslim terrorist committing murder from the media or the public.

My conclusion is the general public has a belief that Muslims are violent and therefore the behavior of the Muslim terrorists is the norm and Pat does not represent the norm for Christian behavior.


LK....I hope the summary helps you understand the thread better.

BTW - you can go back to prior to the Iraq invasion and find statements that Iraq was not directly involved in 9/11. I do not recall anyone making the claim that they were. The claim is that Al Qaeda received support from Sadam. Most rational people believe that is true. I also believe Al Qaeda is supportive of the Muslim terrorist bombers currently attacking Iraqis.

 

[The Lizard King]

LD, thanks for clearing that up. So why would you start to talk about Muslims, Iraq, and 9/11, in a thread about Venezuela when Venezuela is not a Mulsim country?

The claim is that Al Qaeda received support from Sadam. Most rational people believe that is true.

Uh..really? I may have missed something as a result of not giving a flying fuck about your country but was this ever proven? Oh yeah, and substitue "rational" for American, right?

 

[rickoshadows]

BTW - you can go back to prior to the Iraq invasion and find statements that Iraq was not directly involved in 9/11. I do not recall anyone making the claim that they were. The claim is that Al Qaeda received support from Sadam. Most rational people believe that is true. I also believe Al Qaeda is supportive of the Muslim terrorist bombers currently attacking Iraqis.

It is not likely that Iraq was involved at all with 9/11. Saddams secular administration was the antithesis to OBL's vision for a Muslim controlled Middle East. It is much more likely he was aided by the Shite dominated Iran. The conflict between the Shites and Sunnis is somewhat analogous to the battle between the Catholics and the Protestants. Although both sides are willing to put aside their differences when they feel threatened by the West, it is unlikely they would have cooperated on an operation like 9/11. To continue insisting that Iraq was behind 9/11 is like arguing the world was made in six days. Oops, disregard that last comment!

rickoshadows

 

[smackyo]

actually luckydog its quite common that sadam and osama didn't like eachother at all. sadam was too much of a moderate i guess you could say in terms of womens rights and shit like that where as osama is fundamentalist. i believe i read or saw on the news that the two had met before but again didn't really have anything except disdain for one another.

the simple fact of the matter is that sadam had nothing to do with osama.

 

[eljudo]

The shit seems to getting petty fucked up latedly. During a recent speech, the bastard in chief issued a statement declaring that all options are on the table in order to defend national security. A warning meant for Iran. The us governtment is activatedly working toward developing tactical nuclear weapons and will be using them in a war with iran.

I am starting to think that a 9-11 part deux is already on the works and will come sooner or later. Preferably during a proxy event when the media attention is away from current world events.

 

[Webster]

LK...let me try to summarize this thread...you seem to be lost and I like to at least have a debate with an informed person....

The 9/11 attacks were committed by Muslims and there was no call from the Muslim clerics that this was an evil act and should be condemned.

Wrong. There were nuts who cheered it on, but there was a whole bunch of condemnation too. There is no central authority in Islam, so, as with Christianity, you're not going to get lock-step agreement. Sorry the article's an abstract...might be out there in full form on the web.

The terrorists in Iraq killing Iraqis are doing so under the Muslim banner...again no call from Muslim clerics or the media that these people are evil.

Wrong again.

BTW - you can go back to prior to the Iraq invasion and find statements that Iraq was not directly involved in 9/11. I do not recall anyone making the claim that they were.

Stolen from the Washington Monthly:

Cheney knows perfectly well that he's been one of the administration's biggest boosters of alleged ties between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. <a href="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3080244/">In September 2003</a> Cheney said "[Iraq is] the geographical base of the terrorists who had us under assault for many years, but most especially on 9-11." What's more, he has <i>suggested</i> that Saddam Hussein was connected with 9/11 on <a href="http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2004/10/index.html#004297">numerous</a> other <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_03.php#003583">occasions.

The claim is that Al Qaeda received support from Sadam. Most rational people believe that is true.

Not really. I don't doubt that Saddam would try to suck up, and as far as I recall contact took place. But his realpolitik is no different from America's realpolitik, and it's pretty clear that there wasn't a lot of success in it. I can't recall evidence of substantial funding at all. If you can find some I'd be interested.