Hybrid cars - Are they worth buying?

[cruiser]

I went car shopping today and was almost going to make a deal on a 2009 Toyota Camry Hybrid. The one dealership has a one available with only 100 km's and it's fully loaded with leather, DVD navigation, etc. Asking price was around $31,000.

I was curious when they initially received the car and the salesman told me that they had it on their lot since Feb '09. It sat in the showroom for the whole time and then got shoved to the back of the lot (thus the reason for nobody buying it).

I'm wondering if anybody out there in PERB land owns a hybrid (doesn't matter which mfg), and what their opinion is of them. Do they know anbody who has one and whether they like it or not.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

thanks,

 

[MissingOne]

As an out-of-towner, I do on rare occasions ride in taxis in Vancouver. The last couple of times, the taxis happened to be Prius hybrids, so I asked the drivers about them. They were both driver-owned, both high-mileage vehicles, and in both cases the drivers claimed to be very happy with them.

That's all I know about them.

 

[Ghostwalker]

caution

As an out-of-towner, I do on rare occasions ride in taxis in Vancouver. The last couple of times, the taxis happened to be Prius hybrids, so I asked the drivers about them. They were both driver-owned, both high-mileage vehicles, and in both cases the drivers claimed to be very happy with them.

That's all I know about them.

I have done some research, and indeed, I also asked a taxi-driver who drives a very pimped-up Prius Hybrid whether he was happy with his. He said he was extremely happy as the high mileage basically makes his business viable. But when I asked him if he would buy own for person use he advised that his research determined given their costs, the hybrids are only economically-viable if you are putting a lot of mileage on them. That's why commercial fleets are exploring their usage.

The other issue is that the battery-life is only about 5 to 7 years and the battery replacement currently is about 7 grand.... Now that might change and no-body can really predict the replacement costs in 5 to 5 years time, but I suggest that it will still be substantial....

The bottom line, as was stated above, not for prime time if you are not using the vehicle commercially and putting a lot of k on same.

 

[oppai]

A light 4 cyl. like a Honda Fit is a better buy. More fun to drive, as good mileage and no trunk of batteries. A lot of the hybrid options barely get better mileage (usually only city) than their 4 cyl. and sometimes 6cyl. counterparts. If you'd like a good list of cars for your budget/needs PM me.

 

[bcneil]

A hybrid might be good if you lease it for business use.
But to own for personal, I would pass.

They are going to be hard to sell used.
Say a normal $30,000 car, sell it 5-8 years down the road and maybe get $8000-$12,000.
But if its a hybrid in need of a new battery for $7000, good luck getting anything for it.

 

[festealth]

Aren't diesel vehicles better than hybrids?

 

[oppai]

Aren't diesel vehicles better than hybrids?

Better mileage (assuming same class/size). Newer diesels are very clean burning and the engines have great torque and long life.

 

[MissingOne]

Aren't diesel vehicles better than hybrids?

Jeremy Cato recently wrote a good column about diesels in the Globe and Mail. If one is trying to make a decision between hybrid and diesel, it's worth reading. Turns out that politics may be more of a factor in the decision than the technical merits of either.

 

[Urquell]

I expect that the benefits of hybrids which are being pumped out to the public now will come to a crashing halt once the vehicles become old enough to require regular servicing and maintenance. The cost of batteries is ridiculous and I suspect that the specialization and computers needed to work on hybrid vehicles will make even some general maintenance quite costly. While they may be greener I have no doubt that operating hybrids over the long haul is actually more expensive than a gas vehicle, not cheaper, which is the big selling feature. Might be an ok lease option though.

 

[Bare_Facts]

It would be interesting to know the performance of hybrid and especially electric vehicles in COLD climates. Are they really practical in Canada, especially west of the Rockies where we get subzero temps in winter?

And for those that buy the Zero emission tag, remember that is only at the point of use. Where does the electricity to charge your vehicle come from? Coal fired power plants? Transferring the emissions from where you live to where the electricity is produced is not zero emission!

Now if you buy green energy, that may be a different story. Hmm do the people who charge extra for green energy provide accounting to ensure they are not charging for more green energy than they produce?

 

[felixnutbar]

I owned a Prius for a while in LA and I loved it - the more the battery is charged the faster you can go from standing still on just battery power and in a traffic jam it's a huge bonus - no fuel and no guilt of just idling for hours. They're not rockets by any means, but I really loved it. It's smooth, quiet and there really are significant fuel savings for owning one.

Don't buy it for fuel savings, most people have figured out it's a wash when comparing price vs. fuel savings. I still see lots of 97 hybrids on the road, so a modern camry will probably last forever, just like every other toyota. I'm going to buy a prius in the spring (another winter for my beater and then it's done).

hope that helps.

 

[InnocentBoy]

In about 5 years or whenever the batteries require replacement the cost of the batteries would be equal to every nickle of gas you've saved over the years. So unless your a taxi it's not worth it.

 

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I have a 2001 Toyota Prius (bought in 2001) with over 150,000 km on it and still drives great. Haven't yet change the brake pads yet since regenerative braking does most of the stopping. The main traction battery has never had any problems, either. Want full power? Just floor it, and you can't damage the car in any way (computer won't allow redlining of the gas engine). Prius' electric motors provide their maximum torque over a large range of RPMs, including zero RPM, which gives great acceleration at standstill. Yes, the acceleration in generation 1 Prius between 30~50 kph may not be stellar (unless you floor it or drive a generation 2/3 Prius , but its acceleration is great at higher and highway speeds.

People in PA and NY drive hybrids and it gets much colder out there. I'd imagine they must do decently otherwise people wouldn't keep them. They seem to do well on the highway as well - PA especially, your main mode of transportation are 105km/h interstates (minimum speed is 90km/h).

I would never ever ever drive a Prius because they don't come in manual. I refuse to own an automatic, especially if there's a chance of winter weather. If I bought a hybrid, I'd want either a Honda Insight, Honda Civic Hybrid, or a Smart Car.

I am not sure about other hybrids, but Prius surely works in cold weather--in interior Alaska in the middle of the winter, no less! By the way, Prius does not have transmission, automatic or manual, in the traditional sense. It has what is called a transaxle which consists of two electric motors/generators and the internal combustion engine in a planetary arrangement. There is zero shifting, you go from 0 to ~170 km/h in one smooth action.

Actually on all the mainstream Hybrids that are currently on the road, the electricity comes from the small gasoline engine/generator in the car.

There are some plug-in Hybrids (one made right here in the lower mainland), but transport canada has chosen to not make them legal. In the USA, they can be licensed, but are restricted to 40 mph.

What do you mean? Plug-in hybrids are not speed-limited in anyway and are legal in Canada. Did you mean NEV (up to 25mph/40kph)? Plug-in hybrids are just like any other cars on the road, but with some pure electric range or extended high efficiency range.

It is possible to get a kit that changes a Ford Escape/Toyota Prius into a plug in Hybrid, but installation of the kit voids your warranty.

This is not necessarily true. There are many commercial kits that don't modify the existing components in any way and thus do not void the warranty.

In about 5 years or whenever the batteries require replacement the cost of the batteries would be equal to every nickle of gas you've saved over the years. So unless your a taxi it's not worth it.

Buying a hybrid will not make sense money-wise, unless you drive a lot. I'd say over the last 8 years about 7000 litres of gasoline were saved in my Prius.

 

[cruiser]

Everybody is mentioned is the Prius which is only of many hybrids on the market today.

I am looking at the Toyota Camry vs the Nissan Altima Hybrid. I have rode in a few Camry Hybrid taxi's and have found them to very quiet when stopped. I've asked the drivers about mileage and they were telling me that they were getting up around 900km per tank of gas. (big fuel savings considering a gas Camry/Altima gets 500-600 km per tank of gas for city driving).

The only drawbacks that I've found is the trunk space (quite a bit smaller on both cars)...and the talk about the life expectancy of the battery. How about if you don't keep the car until the battery runs out (e.g., 7-9 years) but trade it in after 3-4 years?

One other question I have: How is the life expectancy of the "battery" determined? Is it based on a straight number days/months/years...or hours that the engine is running....or number of km's that the car is driven?

 

[Kev]

To replace the batteries in a Honda hybrid is $2000, in a GMC Tahoe hybrid its $8000. I guess if you buy brand new keep it for a few years and then flip it, repairs won't be a concern.

 

[oppai]

To replace the batteries in a Honda hybrid is $2000, in a GMC Tahoe hybrid its $8000. I guess if you buy brand new keep it for a few years and then flip it, repairs won't be a concern.

I believe Toyota (possibly all, just don't know) recycle the old batteries as well.

 

[Arrrg]

I've been waiting forever for the green car market... not necessarily for fuel/operating savings but simply doing my part to be a little bit more green. (Sorry, I'm not going to bike an hour to goto work and I'm only willing to wait 5-10 minutes at a transit stop )

Today, if I need to buy a greener car I would buy a diesel. The diesel availability is pretty good... a lot of the stations, if not all, I regularly use have diesel pumps.

 

[Arrrg]

Toyota is fleet testing a plug-in system that should be available for the 2012 Prius. It will still have the gasoline engine for long highway trips, but the gasoline engine won't start if the vehicle is in "EV Mode" or the battery has a 20% charge. For city driving, this will mean that as long as the owner can plug the car in at night and drives less than 60 km a day - they won't burn any gasoline. They've had to add a trickle charger for the gasoline engine's 12 volt battery and they've also had to develop a protocol for avoiding varnish from the gasoline.

Thanks for the info, would rather buy the Volt in terms of looks and coming sooner, well maybe

Sigh... today we're not there yet with some range in choices... I need to buy mid/standard SUV size.... or a wagon.

 

[magicmystery]

check these out

Tesla Roadster 2
http://www.teslamotors.com/
http://www.teslamotors.com/design/gallery-body.php
http://www.teslamotors.com/buy/buyshowroom.php

Tesla Model S
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/

- 300 mile range
- 45 minute QuickCharge
- 0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds
- Seats 7 people
- More cargo space than sedans
- 2X as efficient as hybrids
- 17 inch infotainment touchscreen

I am a big Tesla fan!!