How will advertising change after Bill 36?

NataliaBijoux

Member
Jan 23, 2013
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Just curious how advertising will change?
Is it going to be similar to the States where you cannot list services such as 'bbbj, fs, cim etc' ?
How will ads and websites be legally composed after C36?
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
9,576
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In Lust Mostly
I recall the ads in the USA on Backpage etc were not very explicit about the services offered. There was an encouragement to call or text to discuss the time, what service etc etc was required.

I am guessing you may want to advertise in very general terms about the services offered with an encouragement to email you for further details. A quick look at the Backpage in Seattle showed that it has not changed. Call for more details, EVERYTHING is included etc etc.

Where this bill goes with Local Police Departments, sting operations, setting up SP's as informants (heaven forbid because I like the circle of friends I have developed :nod: ) and surveillance are still to be defined.

Natalia, I am purely guessing as many posters will be that we just don't know at this time. My gut tells me the bricks and mortar establishments will be in trouble with constant police harassments to fulfill the Govt law. Indy's such as yourself with a regular clientele may not feel any grief at all. Touch wood :D
 

MissingOne

awake but not woke
Jan 2, 2006
2,170
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... My gut tells me the bricks and mortar establishments will be in trouble with constant police harassments to fulfill the Govt law. Indy's such as yourself with a regular clientele may not feel any grief at all. ...
As I understand it, providing services will be legal. Some level of advertising will be allowed.

It will only be the purchase of services that is illegal. In other words, if I were to have sex with an SP, I would be committing a crime. She would not.

As I see it, pooners will attach a much greater value to anonymity. It seems to me that a pooner has considerable anonymity walking into a storefront massage parlour and paying cash. If one doesn't phone ahead, the business doesn't really have many ways to obtain one's real identity. Most indies, on the other hand, want clients to call from an unblocked phone.

I would guess that reputable indy SPs will continue to get business from known clients. However, new clients may gravitate towards establishments where they can be as anonymous as possible - no phone numbers and no hooks leading to one's identity. This of course will add to the danger to both parties in the transaction.
 

vancity_cowboy

hard riding member
Jan 27, 2008
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...from the bill

Advertising sexual services

286.4 Everyone who knowingly advertises an offer to provide sexual services for consideration is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 18 months.

Immunity — material benefit and advertising

286.5 (1) No person shall be prosecuted for
(a) an offence under section 286.2 if the benefit is derived from the provision of their own sexual services; or
(b) an offence under section 286.4 in relation to the advertisement of their own sexual services.
the actual carriers of advertisments or the media sources of advertising will be governed as follows:

6. (1) Subsection 164(1) of the Act is replaced by the following:

Warrant of seizure

164. (1) A judge may issue a warrant authorizing seizure of copies of a recording, a publication, a representation or any written material, if the judge is satisfied by information on oath that there are reasonable grounds to believe that
(a) the recording, copies of which are kept for sale or distribution in premises within the jurisdiction of the court, is a voyeuristic recording;
(b) the publication, copies of which are kept for sale or distribution in premises within the jurisdiction of the court, is obscene or a crime comic, as defined in section 163;
(c) the representation, written material or recording, copies of which are kept in premises within the jurisdiction of the court, is child pornography as defined in section 163.1; or
(d) the representation, written material or recording, copies of which are kept in premises within the jurisdiction of the court, is an advertisement of sexual services.

(2) Subsections 164(3) to (5) of the Act are replaced by the following:

Owner and maker may appear

(3) The owner and the maker of the matter seized under subsection (1), and alleged to be obscene, a crime comic, child pornography, a voyeuristic recording or an advertisement of sexual services, may appear and be represented in the proceedings to oppose the making of an order for the forfeiture of the matter.

Order of forfeiture

(4) If the court is satisfied, on a balance of probabilities, that the publication, representation, written material or recording referred to in subsection (1) is obscene, a crime comic, child pornography, a voyeuristic recording or an advertisement of sexual services, it may make an order declaring the matter forfeited to Her Majesty in right of the province in which the proceedings take place, for disposal as the Attorney General may direct.

Disposal of matter

(5) If the court is not satisfied that the publication, representation, written material or recording referred to in subsection (1) is obscene, a crime comic, child pornography, a voyeuristic recording or an advertisement of sexual services, it shall order that the matter be restored to the person from whom it was seized without delay after the time for final appeal has expired.

(3) Subsection 164(7) of the Act is replaced by the following:

Consent

(7) If an order is made under this section by a judge in a province with respect to one or more copies of a publication, a representation, written material or a recording, no proceedings shall be instituted or continued in that province under section 162, 163, 163.1 or 286.4 with respect to those or other copies of the same publication, representation, written material or recording without the consent of the Attorney General.

(4) Subsection 164(8) of the Act is amended by adding the following in alphabetical order:

“advertisement of sexual services”

“advertisement of sexual services” means any material — including a photographic, film, video, audio or other recording, made by any means, a visual representation or any written material — that is used to advertise sexual services contrary to section 286.4.

7. (1) The portion of subsection 164.1(1) of the Act before paragraph (a) is replaced by the following:

Warrant of seizure

164.1 (1) If a judge is satisfied by information on oath that there are reasonable grounds to believe that there is material — namely, child pornography as defined in section 163.1, a voyeuristic recording or an advertisement of sexual services as defined in subsection 164(8) or data as defined in subsection 342.1(2) that makes child pornography, a voyeuristic recording or an advertisement of sexual services available — that is stored on and made available through a computer system as defined in subsection 342.1(2) that is within the jurisdiction of the court, the judge may order the custodian of the computer system to

(2) Subsection 164.1(5) of the Act is replaced by the following:

Order

(5) If the court is satisfied, on a balance of probabilities, that the material is child pornog*raphy as defined in section 163.1, a voyeuristic recording or an advertisement of sexual services as defined in subsection 164(8) or data as defined in subsection 342.1(2) that makes child pornography, the voyeuristic recording or the advertisement of sexual services available, it may order the custodian of the computer system to delete the material.
so, after all that bafflegab and legalese, it appears that escorts can advertise as they normally would. however, that would need to be tested and defined by common law in actual court cases

however, the treatment of advertising media seems to be a bit soft in that they are only required to delete the material if found guilty of carrying an advertisment for sexual services for consideration. no fines or jail terms. but they obviously won't want to carry an ad for sexual services in exchange for consideration. therefore, it will be up to the providers to word their ads in such a way that the advertising media will find it acceptable, and not result in the seizure of their material

the advertising media will no doubt provide guidance on the matter (or at least their lawyers will)

in my amateur opinion, the bill contains a number of glaring instances where it says that something CAN be done legally in one section, then says in another section that the same thing CAN NOT be done legally. the advertising clauses is one of those instances. whether this is done intentionally or not is anybody's guess
 

Man Mountain

Too Old To Die Young
Oct 29, 2006
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the actual carriers of advertisments or the media sources of advertising will be governed as follows:



so, after all that bafflegab and legalese, it appears that escorts can advertise as they normally would. however, that would need to be tested and defined by common law in actual court cases
Truly independent escorts that are indeed posting their own ads and whose ads are not being written and/or posted by a third party ("agent", "marketer" whatever term you want to use). So, if you read between the lines or believe what MacKay said in that press conference all those months ago, there may be active investigations into who is actually posting the ads. How those investigations are conducted is open to speculation at this point. However, we have read recent posted reports about law enforcement task forces booking appointments with SPs in order to interview them about their working situations and whether or not they are being coerced to work.

With respect to comparisons to the US: we have to remember that in the US, both sides of the equation are criminalized. So, SPs have to be more careful about how they advertise their services. In a post Bill C-36 Canada, it's the clients who are most at risk. If SPs aren't specific about rates and services in their ads, could potential clients put themselves at risk by simply asking for details about rates and services? As cowboy points out, there will have to be cases brought to courts for precedents to be set.

Also as cowboy points out, it will probably be up to advertising venues to determine how much specific details about rates and services they will allow on their sites based on how much risk they are willing to take. We've already seen at least one site change their advertising posting guidelines in preparation for the implementation of the new laws.
 

westwoody

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
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This is one of many aspects of C36 that is contradictory.

Speculation is pointless for now, there is no way of knowing the consequences until a judge rules on a test case. Even then you can bet cases will be shopped around to different judges by the Crown, and there will be appeals from both sides.

A definitive answer will be years away.

Thank you Harper you fucking hypocrite.
 

uncleg

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2006
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Looking at 286.5 it looks like, as stated, the individual provider can advertise as they do now....remember, what they are selling is legal. Question is, will they want to ? Kind of hard to argue you were only booking a session to discuss the latest Canuck disasters when her ad offers to fuck your brains out. Agencies might be in a lot of trouble, it's not like they are selling their own sexual services, so do they suddenly become pimps ? They will probably have to change how they do business or define themselves more so than PERB or other venues like this. In fact this could be a financial boon to Fred Zed and his ilk.
 

Slapshot1

New member
May 27, 2014
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Mile 62 Saskatchewan
The ladies need a new code.....
"For Sale"
One HB pencil (gfe) $250
Erasers (extras) $$50-$100
Geometry set ( multiple hours) $600
Pencil case (overnight) $1500

Only problem with doing this is that guys suffer from lack of blood flow to the brain and have to come on here and ask what "digits" are. The acronyms will have to go the way of the dodo and replaced with who knows what, or just not included in the ads at all.
 

newatit

Member
Jan 31, 2011
741
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I personally well stay away from any SP's advertising. No matter what they advertise. It is obvious that the LE are going to use these ads as bait. It has been stated several times by other writers that this is a law which permits legal bait to be used by the police. That is just what they will do. They they are sitting outside the business locations of prostitutes in other countries where the Nordic model is in effect. That has been reported. It is easy for them to do it here. Or they can also conduct the same type of sting operations that they have for communication in public places. This law brings the police power to investigate every act of intercourse in this country and question if it has been performed for a fee or a consideration. We have lost our sexual privacy and our sexual freedom with this law. We have to establish now that the sexual acts that we are performing are done for free. Well of course you can say we are innocent until proven guilty and so the proof of guilt is upon the police. So we need to know what it's going to take to get a conviction in court that a we did in fact perform a sexual act and second that we paid for it and someway. Who knows?

But, in order to get a conviction it might be necessary for the police to prove that the woman you visited is a prostitute. That would make it very easy for a judge or a court of law. So my participation in this sport will be limited to gals who I really am more of an affair with than just buying a service
 
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Vancityads

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Dec 24, 2010
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I have already made major changes to my site. The old vancityads is gone, all info (data) was deleted

Advertisers can no longer post naked images and can not post anything to do with selling sex for money

so far it has gone over quite well

you can check out the changes http://vancityads.com
 

Man Mountain

Too Old To Die Young
Oct 29, 2006
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Asking for "more info" is like pulling teeth

Just a note for some of the ladies out there advertising on sites like leolist and backpage: please work with us :D

Under the new laws, it's now illegal for us to ask you specific questions in regards to your rates and the nature of the services that you offer. And the advertising venues, for the most part, are restricting what information you can post in your ads. I've seen a number of ads now where the advertiser asks that we contact them for "more information".

So, when I follow that protocol and ask rather vaguely something along the lines of, "I noticed your ad on (insert advertising venue name here) to contact you for more information. May I ask what more you're willing to share about yourself?" Please understand that it's because I'm being extremely cautious and am no longer comfortable asking questions about rates and specific services. So, I'm expecting that the advertisers understand that it's up to them now to offer as complete and specific an answer to that type of question of their own free will and that if they remain vague about the nature of rates and/or services or possibly do not list a service in which I am interested, I will most likely thank them for their time and move on.

In the past few weeks, of the handful of advertisers that I've contacted, only one seemed to understand this. And one I contacted yesterday was particularly frustrating because when asking for more info, all I that she texted back was "I don't do bareback fs, pretty open minded." No mention of rates or specifics about services that she does offer. I actually broke my own rule and pressed for more specifics and she still didn't seem to get it and only responded by noting "I just told you my restriction" To which I finally gave up, thanking her for her time. She sent one final text thereafter finally noting that "I offer full service luv" -- still no rate or specifics about say basic FS or GFE? CBJ vs. BBBJ? LFK? DFK? MSOG?
 
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76duster

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Apr 6, 2014
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The thing is they are making it illegal for the venues on which people advertise, thus the reason Fred moved the server off shore. .
Moving off shore is not going to provide him any legal protection whatsoever. The website is aimed at advertising sexual services to people in Canada, it does not matter where the server is. There have been so many cases like this, where an illegal service is provided by servers in offshore jurisdictions, and it provides ZERO legal protection from prosecution. All it protects him from is possibly the shutting down of the website because the offshore jurisdiction can choose to comply or not. It won't stop the freezing of Canadian (or for that matter American) bank accounts, nor will it stop charges being laid.


I am not sure of how the law works when it comes to servers that are off shore or in the United States, but I don't expect they will make a big deal about enforcing that.
If in the U.S., they'll go after the servers without hesitation. Not only that, they'll try to find ways to charge you under U.S. law, and that won't be too difficult.
If off shore, as long as the ad is being targeted to Canadians, it's illegal and those responsible are liable to prosecution wherever they are.


Read about a Canadian who was indicted in the United States where online gambling is illegal. He had servers in Costa Rica. Not only was he prosecuted, so were a number of Canadians who lived and worked in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bodog-gambling-site-shut-down-canadian-owner-indicted-1.1159011
 

Claire Monet

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Apr 28, 2014
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lol This can work both ways. For me to feel comfortable booking with someone I like to know a bit about them and what they're looking for. Asking for this info can be akin to pulling teeth. A lot of guys understand this process and kindly reply with something along the lines of "My name is Rob, I'm 47, from Kansas, I like slow and sensual encounters and reciprocating... My references are ....", but more often than you may think I receive responses like "I'm Kevin. 34. Want to make an appointment". Ughhhh. That's when I move on.

MM, I'm sure it's frustrating from your perspective as well. Personally I'm not comfortable offering a "menu". When I'm asked what I provide (and if they've taken a few minutes to actually read my ads, site, and preferences ie gentlemen 30+ and initial contact through email I'd hope they'd have a pretty good understanding of me already) I reply with what I don't provide. I think that's reasonable, no? I can see how "I don't do bbfs" is rather curt and not very informative-- but maybe that really is her only restriction and she'd be fine with everything else from foot fetish to golden showers. lol one very open minded provider!
 

Man Mountain

Too Old To Die Young
Oct 29, 2006
3,863
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lol This can work both ways. For me to feel comfortable booking with someone I like to know a bit about them and what they're looking for. Asking for this info can be akin to pulling teeth. A lot of guys understand this process and kindly reply with something along the lines of "My name is Rob, I'm 47, from Kansas, I like slow and sensual encounters and reciprocating... My references are ....", but more often than you may think I receive responses like "I'm Kevin. 34. Want to make an appointment". Ughhhh. That's when I move on.

MM, I'm sure it's frustrating from your perspective as well. Personally I'm not comfortable offering a "menu". When I'm asked what I provide (and if they've taken a few minutes to actually read my ads, site, and preferences ie gentlemen 30+ and initial contact through email I'd hope they'd have a pretty good understanding of me already) I reply with what I don't provide. I think that's reasonable, no? I can see how "I don't do bbfs" is rather curt and not very informative-- but maybe that really is her only restriction and she'd be fine with everything else from foot fetish to golden showers. lol one very open minded provider!
As one of the more established ladies who at the very least has a number of reviews out there already, I wouldn't necessarily think that this would apply as much to someone like you or other ladies in a similar circumstance. I haven't looked at your site recently and can't remember how detailed it is at this point but I have some recollection of your ads from pre C-36 times and would think that I at least would have a vague idea of what I could expect if I were to book time with you. I'm more referencing the ladies who might not be "known" in the same respect.

Edit: Oh, regarding this:

I can see how "I don't do bbfs" is rather curt and not very informative-- but maybe that really is her only restriction and she'd be fine with everything else from foot fetish to golden showers. lol one very open minded provider!
I think for many of us who have been around long enough to know better, speculating about what an SP will "maybe" offer just isn't good enough. There's a reason we have come to ask for and expect specifics :p :D

Another note: I've also noticed some ads that have included a link to a website with a note to look for more info on that site, only to find that site still lacks the basic information about rates and services. In one such instance, I emailed her to let her know that information was not to be found on her site, and unfortunately her reply was still vague as to specifics. I did get basic rates with time frames but no specifics about services.
 
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Caramel

Banned
Dec 21, 2011
1,086
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MM, what about YMMV? There should be some common sense used among everyone in the industry. Foot fetishes and golden showers would go under a fetish category and be discussed separately. The most common service is full service, G F E especially if youre browsing female companions in ll. If her only restriction is BBFS, and she said "open minded", that most likely means that she does everything from bbbj bls (if you're clean, groomed, etc and ask for it nicely), dfk lfk (again fresh breath, etc), daty etc etc and whatever else the SP and client feels like doing. Maybe even greek for extra? Check her reviews if she is usually a scammer and liar or upsells, then ignore her.

Frankly its annoying listing every service and restriction to everyone who asks, some of us have bypassed this by coding words on leolist but it can be risky, getting a pre paid ad pulled would be terrible! but so far so good dont think LL cares much unless its causing an issue. And honestly it should be ymmv, not all guys deserve to get a bbbj, or not all of them know how to safely and without causing pain or minor injury know how DATY properly! So its always good to test the waters first. And if she says "yes" to bbbj/etc on the phone, yet the client comes with a huge smelly bush, or his penis has a thick layer of grease over it that didnt come off in the shower ETC, or anything else nasty...and she goes to cover it with a condom or keeps her distance, don't blame her.

It baffles me how some guys even have the nerve to ask for certain services with their hygiene lol, one time it was so extremely bad i thought someone was playing a nasty joke on me by sending me this guy haha
 

PlayfulAlex

Still Playing...
Jan 18, 2010
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Frankly, the attitude displayed in your post will cost you business. MM made an eloquent and reasoned argument in light of the law why we can't ask about services, and your response is "it's annoying". There are a ton of new and under reviewed ladies out there and the guys have no frame of reference. Not listing services in ads is understandable and required by site owners now to avoid legal issues. The ladies themselves are the ONLY ones who can safely do so now. More often than not "open minded" means diddly squat and the list of restrictions grows, no kissing, no DATY, etc etc. So, guys like MM, and me and countless others will simply move on when faced with a lack of information, or worse, a lady who displays attitude about being asked if she kisses or not.
If the services aren't reflected in the ad, I feel that the gentlemen have no choice but to inquire about the details over the phone. After all, they are the ones who are after a particular experience. They're the ones who stand the largest chance of being disappointed, if something they want turns out not to be available, but they had no way of determining that ahead of arriving.

Having said that, this industry just isn't that cut and dried. As has been said over the years, this isn't like a typical service that offers a list of what's available. There is an element of 'taking a chance' inherent in this hobby.

If she offers massage in the therapeutic section of Craigslist, as an example, chances are there are extras available. The gentleman may or may not ask about them, depending on his willingness to be adventurous.

The nicest compliment a fella can pay is "wow, and you're attractive on top of everything else!" That's what a lady likes to hear. And that's the experience that any fella is looking for.
 
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