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Thread: Side effects of new police force in Surrey

  1. #1
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    Side effects of new police force in Surrey

    I firmly believe that the end result will be significantly fewer boots on the street (and vehicles) when the new municipal police force replaces the RCMP in Surrey.

    The idiots in Surrey that voted in this mayor are definitely going to regret it when all is said and done. When you consider the initial costs of creating a new force, and the costs associated with senior management that will need to be put in place that the RCMP was providing in Otttawa, etc, even with a significantly larger budget, I beleive they will still have less people doing actual policing.

    And so one side effect that I predict is that this means there will be less officiers to enforce non-emergency policing like, for example, harrassing Johns that are picking up SWs. I have a friend that lives in a newer apt. building around 105 and Univeristy in Surrey. She got a good deal on the rent I suspect because of extra traffic caused by the SWs in that general area. I know I see one or more RCMP SUVs patrolling in the area each time I visit her. Again, I don't expect to see that kind of policing from the new force.

    So expect Surrey to become the SW capital of Canada. Should be entertaining to watch at the very least.

    JD

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    Pure speculation.

    The RCMP are not bothering with minor things now. They won't even come out for B & E's.

    Priority will still be given to problem areas, and Surrey Centre is a problem area.

    The RCMP model is archaic, and not suited for urban centres. Their system of transfers takes officers out of commission just when they've started getting integrated in the community, and figuring out who the bad guys are and developing trust with contacts.

    The Delta/New Westminster/Vancouver model will be the future, and resources will be shared.

    The biggest mistake Surrey has made is not naming an interim Police Chief, who could hire the senior officers he/she needs to build a new force.
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  3. #3
    When I think Surrey, I think:

    The Ghetto

    Whalley

    Newton

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    I not knowing how police forces budget and operate... but my guess will side with JimDandy... The RCMP Have the management structure built in at a nationally shared cost. But this comes with an attitude that is detached from local issues. Surreys big problems is not really the SWs and the Street Walkers.... Its the drugs and gangs and guns. I think Surrey is rated as #1 Gang war territory... Correct me if I am wrong... So on one hand me thinks The RCMP is the best resource we have for well trained and educated officers to deal with these violent people. That being said... having a local force might be able to focus better on the local issues by knowing the local community better.. in either case I dont see any change in the concern for the Sex trade being any different, if the force is changed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cock Throppled View Post
    Pure speculation.

    The RCMP are not bothering with minor things now. They won't even come out for B & E's.

    Priority will still be given to problem areas, and Surrey Centre is a problem area.

    The RCMP model is archaic, and not suited for urban centres. Their system of transfers takes officers out of commission just when they've started getting integrated in the community, and figuring out who the bad guys are and developing trust with contacts.

    The Delta/New Westminster/Vancouver model will be the future, and resources will be shared.

    The biggest mistake Surrey has made is not naming an interim Police Chief, who could hire the senior officers he/she needs to build a new force.
    Time will tell who is correct here. All I know is that presently there is lots of LE presence in 105 & University area. A john would have to be very stupid or very desperate to try to pick up a SW in that area. We will see if that is still the case in a few years time.

    And btw, do Vancouver police come out for B & E's ? I suspect not.

    JD

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    Quote Originally Posted by islander1-1 View Post
    I not knowing how police forces budget and operate... but my guess will side with JimDandy... Surreys big problems is not really the SWs and the Street Walkers....
    Thanks for siding with me. But I should note that "SW" is an abbreviation for "Street Walkers" as far as I know, so I believe you are being redundant

    JD

  7. #7
    J.D...with respect. I'm in agreement with C.P on this. Not going into a " book writing style " explanation but, Surrey's main issue is street gang violence......gun shootings. S.W is not an issue when you watch and read local media news.

    I'm quite sure that if Surrey residents had a chose of resolving S.W or gang shooting in the streets. If I was a gambling man, I'm sure they would chose gang(s) shooting being eliminated.

    Just saying.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cock Throppled View Post
    Pure speculation.

    The RCMP are not bothering with minor things now. They won't even come out for B & E's.

    Priority will still be given to problem areas, and Surrey Centre is a problem area.

    The RCMP model is archaic, and not suited for urban centres. Their system of transfers takes officers out of commission just when they've started getting integrated in the community, and figuring out who the bad guys are and developing trust with contacts.

    The Delta/New Westminster/Vancouver model will be the future, and resources will be shared.

    The biggest mistake Surrey has made is not naming an interim Police Chief, who could hire the senior officers he/she needs to build a new force.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Equity Market investor View Post
    J.D...with respect. I'm in agreement with C.P on this. Not going into a " book writing style " explanation but, Surrey's main issue is street gang violence......gun shootings. S.W is not an issue when you watch and read local media news.

    I'm quite sure that if Surrey residents had a chose of resolving S.W or gang shooting in the streets. If I was a gambling man, I'm sure they would chose gang(s) shooting being eliminated.

    Just saying.
    With respect, your arguement supports my arguement! You are essentially saying that the new police force will be going after gang(s) and not SW's. That is exactly what I am saying. And therefore the new police force will leave the SWs and johns alone and there will be many more SWs working in Surrey (and johns chasing after them), which was my initial prediction.

    JD

  9. #9
    Back in the '50s and '60s Surrey was the place folks in Vancouver fled to pay less property tax. Virtually no sidewalks except for a few blocks along a modest commercial strip in Whalley and insignificant street lighting everywhere. Insignificant traffic allowed commuters to go into Vancouver even before Port Mann Bridge completion for Canadian centennial. Federal Canada opened a floodgate of immigration. The rest is history. Old simple street planning turned Surrey into a lower middle class outback. Increased lighting standards sprouted up on sidewalks that had to be built close to roadways that inconveniently sprayed dirty rain on pedestrians and later on cyclists. You get the idea. The whole Surrey experience is a built-in inconvenience.

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    The sex business is an easy target for LE to do little and get media exposure showing they are doing something, especially when compared to success in gang related crime.

    I would be concerned things may get worse for SWs and johns.
    Even though there are days I wish I could change some things that happened in the past, thereís a reason the rear view mirror is so small and the windshield is so big, where youíre headed is much more important than what youíve left behind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgg View Post
    The sex business is an easy target for LE to do little and get media exposure showing they are doing something, especially when compared to success in gang related crime.

    I would be concerned things may get worse for SWs and johns.
    You make a good point. And it is much safer too. Don't have to worry too much that a rookie cop will get shot by a SW or a john lol. I guess time will tell

    JD

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    Ottawa negotiates the contracts with all BC municipalities. Itís underfunded and understaffed, possibly the fault of the municipalities because they want bottom dollar and the net result is citizens are unhappy with crime rates rising.

    North Van has the same complaints about staffing levels. The last mayor said he wanted to move to local police force. City of North Van didnít support those initiatives and the costs of going alone were cost prohibitive so itís still unchanged.

    Keep in mind RCMP officers do not make the same $ as local police forces. Iíd bet there will be a bit of an exodus to the new police force should it become a reality.


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JimDandy View Post
    I firmly believe that the end result will be significantly fewer boots on the street (and vehicles) when the new municipal police force replaces the RCMP in Surrey.

    The idiots in Surrey that voted in this mayor are definitely going to regret it when all is said and done. When you consider the initial costs of creating a new force, and the costs associated with senior management that will need to be put in place that the RCMP was providing in Otttawa, etc, even with a significantly larger budget, I beleive they will still have less people doing actual policing.

    JD

    Quote Originally Posted by Cock Throppled View Post

    The RCMP model is archaic, and not suited for urban centres. Their system of transfers takes officers out of commission just when they've started getting integrated in the community, and figuring out who the bad guys are and developing trust with contacts.

    The Delta/New Westminster/Vancouver model will be the future, and resources will be shared.

    The biggest mistake Surrey has made is not naming an interim Police Chief, who could hire the senior officers he/she needs to build a new force.


    I think since Delta has its own force, the logical thing to do would have been just to merge Surrey's force with that one - or put another way, to use exactly the same systems, just expand them like 5x to include Surrey.



    Quote Originally Posted by badbadboy View Post
    Ottawa negotiates the contracts with all BC municipalities. It’s underfunded and understaffed, possibly the fault of the municipalities because they want bottom dollar and the net result is citizens are unhappy with crime rates rising.

    North Van has the same complaints about staffing levels. The last mayor said he wanted to move to local police force. City of North Van didn’t support those initiatives and the costs of going alone were cost prohibitive so it’s still unchanged.

    Keep in mind RCMP officers do not make the same $ as local police forces. I’d bet there will be a bit of an exodus to the new police force should it become a reality.

    North Van's got a different problem: There's North Van City and North Van District, their separate existence being a foolish fiction that their city councils like to maintain, but they share the same RCMP.

    The cost thing you point out is perhaps why the RCMP still does local street policing. Personally, I think I don't think McCallum's been handling it well, but the idea of replacing the RCMP with a more local force makes some sense.

    The problem with it is the size: there should be one police force for Metro Vancouver, answering to the provincial government, or some sort of policing council. We have Translink, so why not have a regional MVPD force ? Easier to imagine that than Surrey by itself. The obstacle is mainly the pols haggling over the funding.

    It makes sense in terms of cost, of training, of officers' attitudes to the community, and all that operational unity they need to deal with the big crimes like the gang wars.

    The RCMP has a lot of centralized resources, but as you can see their priorities get skewed by the higher-ups, and some very big cases have been botched.
    Last edited by rlock; 12-17-2019 at 01:57 PM. Reason: fixed a typo

  14. #14
    The cost to maintain local police force cost more as well. Currently Ottawa(federal government) pays 10% of policing for Surrey Rcmp.
    Also the average salary of Vancouver police or any municipal police force is a lot higher than Rcmp.
    Given the same budget, there will be less officers on the force if switch from Rcmp to Surrey police.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimDandy View Post
    Thanks for siding with me. But I should note that "SW" is an abbreviation for "Street Walkers" as far as I know, so I believe you are being redundant

    JD
    In my book. Is is an anacronym for both... Street Walker, and Sex Worker. Also. street worker and so many more. Urban Dictionary is your fiend.

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