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Thread: Culturally sensitive EI question

  1. #1

    Culturally sensitive EI question

    I ask this in the spirit of curiosity and respectful dialogue.

    There have been a few threads on PERB querying about East Indian SPs and 3-4 names, very beautiful & pricey, always come up. But that's it... which made me curious.
    The 2016 census data on Wikipedia had Metro Vancouver's ethic populations as:

    49.3% European ("white")
    19.6% Chinese
    12% South Asian (the majority of Punjabi origin... let's use "EI" for the sake of this post as the geography includes Pakistan, India, Bangladesh & Sri Lanka)

    If one were to do an informal survey of Leolist, the number of SPs posting of European origin seems to be roughly correct, while Chinese SPs seem over-represented, and there are also many Filipino (5.1%), Korean (2.2%), SE Asian (1.9%) & Japanese (1.2%) women advertising who are either in proportion or greater than their population (brackets = census data). The same goes for Latin American (1.4%) and Black (1.2%) women.

    One only has to wander through any shopping mall or college campus in our fair city to literally experience whiplash at the number of beautiful EI women... so, proportionally, one would expect to see one EI woman for every 5 white women or 3 Asian women advertising on Leolist/Tryst/etc.... but that is really not the case.

    Furthermore, the majority of EI women in the SP age bracket living in Metro Vancouver are likely Canadian-born and, thus, assimilated into the same generic North American culture as any other 2nd generation group. One often sees multi-ethnic groups of friends... so if the local white girls and Canadian-born Asian girls don't have qualms about sex-work, is there some unspoken cultural barrier in the EI community?

    I'm guessing there are plenty of EI men on Perb... would any care to offer their insight? Or, anyone else who might have a plausible theory (socio-economic, etc.) about this statistical anomaly?
    Last edited by beaveraddict; 05-16-2019 at 12:53 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by beaveraddict View Post
    I ask this in the spirit of curiosity and respectful dialogue.

    There have been a few threads on PERB querying about East Indian SPs and 3-4 names, very beautiful & pricey, always come up. But that's it... which made me curious.
    The 2016 census data on Wikipedia had Metro Vancouver's ethic populations as:

    49.3% European ("white")
    19.6% Chinese
    12% South Asian (the majority of Punjabi origin... let's use "EI" for the sake of this post)

    If one were to do an informal survey of Leolist, the number of SPs posting of European origin seems to be roughly correct, while Chinese SPs seem over-represented, and there are also many Filipino (5.1%), Korean (2.2%), SE Asian (1.9%) & Japanese (1.2%) women advertising who are either in proportion or greater than their population (brackets = census data). The same goes for Latin American (1.4%) and Black (1.2%) women.

    One only has to wander through any shopping mall or college campus in our fair city to literally experience whiplash at the number of beautiful EI women... so, proportionally, one would expect to see one EI woman for every 5 white women or 3 Asian women advertising on Leolist/Tryst/etc.... but that is really not the case.

    Furthermore, the majority of EI women in the SP age bracket living in Metro Vancouver are likely Canadian-born and, thus, assimilated into the same generic North American culture as any other 2nd generation group. One often sees multi-ethnic groups of friends... so if the local white girls and Canadian-born Asian girls don't have qualms about sex-work, is there some unspoken cultural barrier in the EI community?

    I'm guessing there are plenty of EI men on Perb... would any care to offer their insight? Or, anyone else who might have a plausible theory (socio-economic, etc.) about this statistical anomaly?
    I can't answer your question with an educated guess but the observation I have are that a lot of the Chinese sex workers are floaters - Students, individuals, temporary travelers, or short term visitors.

    I don't know that Canada is a desired exchange / education country for Indians. Most of them head to the US instead.

    The word "East Indians" is fucking weird. They're from India, they're just Indians. We're not North North Americans. We're Canadians.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by nightswhisper View Post
    I can't answer your question with an educated guess but the observation I have are that a lot of the Chinese sex workers are floaters - Students, individuals, temporary travelers, or short term visitors.

    I don't know that Canada is a desired exchange / education country for Indians. Most of them head to the US instead.

    The word "East Indians" is fucking weird. They're from India, they're just Indians. We're not North North Americans. We're Canadians.
    Agreed about the terminology, but I was just going with common usage... Columbus didn't understand longitude 500+ years ago and we're still confused!
    Leolist uses "Indo-Canadian", which seems cumbersome while nearly every thread I've read on PERB uses the term "EI" so I was keeping it simple & apologies for the colonial baggage.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by beaveraddict View Post
    I ask this in the spirit of curiosity and respectful dialogue.

    There have been a few threads on PERB querying about East Indian SPs and 3-4 names, very beautiful & pricey, always come up. But that's it... which made me curious.
    The 2016 census data on Wikipedia had Metro Vancouver's ethic populations as:

    49.3% European ("white")
    19.6% Chinese
    12% South Asian (the majority of Punjabi origin... let's use "EI" for the sake of this post as the geography includes Pakistan, India, Bangladesh & Sri Lanka)

    If one were to do an informal survey of Leolist, the number of SPs posting of European origin seems to be roughly correct, while Chinese SPs seem over-represented, and there are also many Filipino (5.1%), Korean (2.2%), SE Asian (1.9%) & Japanese (1.2%) women advertising who are either in proportion or greater than their population (brackets = census data). The same goes for Latin American (1.4%) and Black (1.2%) women.

    One only has to wander through any shopping mall or college campus in our fair city to literally experience whiplash at the number of beautiful EI women... so, proportionally, one would expect to see one EI woman for every 5 white women or 3 Asian women advertising on Leolist/Tryst/etc.... but that is really not the case.

    Furthermore, the majority of EI women in the SP age bracket living in Metro Vancouver are likely Canadian-born and, thus, assimilated into the same generic North American culture as any other 2nd generation group. One often sees multi-ethnic groups of friends... so if the local white girls and Canadian-born Asian girls don't have qualms about sex-work, is there some unspoken cultural barrier in the EI community?

    I'm guessing there are plenty of EI men on Perb... would any care to offer their insight? Or, anyone else who might have a plausible theory (socio-economic, etc.) about this statistical anomaly?
    Not everything in society has to align in perfect proportion to the overall population. The NBA is an American sports league, the majority of NBA players are African American and in no ways reflect proportionally to the overall American population. The NBA, and sex workers for that matter, constitute a sub-population: a sub-population may or may not (usually doesn't however) display perfect proportionality to the overall population from which the sub-population is derived. A sub-population not exhibiting the same proportionality as the overall population does not mean there is statistical anomaly. If one wants to know what females in a certain ethnic group think of sex work - you would need to sample females in that certain ethnic group, not look at ethnic breakdowns of all sex-workers.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by beaveraddict View Post
    is there some unspoken cultural barrier in the EI community?
    Like perhaps a chance to become a victim of an "honor killing"? That's a pretty strong deterrent.

    Even if we hope that practice goes away completely, culture won't change easily. If a young women gets disowned by her family, that's a harsh punishment given their close family ties.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by felixthecat View Post
    Like perhaps a chance to become a victim of an "honor killing"? That's a pretty strong deterrent.

    Even if we hope that practice goes away completely, culture won't change easily. If a young women gets disowned by her family, that's a harsh punishment given their close family ties.

    I would have to tend to agree, with Felix's assessment .

    Jassi Sidhu simply fell in Love, and married the perceived wrong Man .
    I don't think Sex Work, would fall on a kinder Eye ?

    In Jassi's case, almost 20 years later, Justice hasn't fully been served !



    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ndia-1.1156809

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle18583109/

    Back in the Day when I frequented Strip Clubs, I shared the OP's curiosity, and fascination !
    You very rarely, saw an EI Stripper .

    Cultural norms, die hard, IMHO !

    Hopefully, We can move away from these extreme Acts of Violence, in our Canadian society !

    Cheers

    P.S. I can't imagine any Parent, wanting to kill their own Child ?
    But, especially a Mother, feeling such contempt for her Daughter ! I always assumed a special bond, between a Mother, and a Daughter .
    I know, I play second Fiddle, with mine !
    Last edited by Vulva Man; 05-16-2019 at 05:30 AM. Reason: P.S.

  7. #7
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    Winnipeg has a large East Indian community but no SP's that I am aware of. Also have a large Chinese community, again no SP's that I am aware of. Filipino I believe one or two.
    There are likely many reasons why this is the case.
    Maybe start with "some" of the reasons someone becomes a SP and you might start getting some answers.

  8. #8
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    Maybe they EI women are scared of their families.....Its a close community, just like your church's community, you don't do anything outside the norms of those cultures.... if you do and are caught; expect retaliation of some kind...

    Today as I understand it, most SW get into the business for the money aspects; a means to an end. Not because their boyfriend pimped them into it.

    As for honor killings- it goes to show that the EI culture has some updating/evolving to do.

  9. #9
    Here's a guess.

    Many (not all) of the Chinese SPs in Vancouver are floaters. They're here on a short-term basis. If things go bad, not many would know, and they certainly don't have to report to anyone.

    There aren't a lot of Indian floaters in Vancouver. Most of them are with their families or live here generationally. If you look at real CBA's, not a whole lot of them are SPs either.

    I think it boils down to how far away you are from home. Where Indians see Canada as an immigration country, the Chinese see Canada as a diving-board country. The former are here to settle and live, and many must care about their reputation. The latter are just trying to get that college diploma so they can go back to China and show off their foreign education.

    Just a thought.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nightswhisper View Post

    The word "East Indians" is fucking weird. They're from India, they're just Indians. We're not North North Americans. We're Canadians.
    Caribbean nations field a,"Team West Indies" in International Cricket tournaments.
    The Islands of the Caribbean,are referred to as ,"The West Indies" featuring,"West Indian "culture.
    Ethnicities within West Indian culture may include trace Carib & Arawak Indigenous peoples,European peoples,Afro-Caribbean peoples and Indo-Caribbean peoples.

    "Indo-Canadian"is a commonly used term in the media,which may be a better fit than,"East Indian".
    Just as,"Indigenous/First Nation"may be a better fit than,"Indian/Native Indian".
    Perhaps,"Indian" applied to anyone living outside of India,carries the stigma of colonialist context.

    Engelbert Humperdink

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by E.H. View Post
    Caribbean nations field a,"Team West Indies" in International Cricket tournaments.
    The Islands of the Caribbean,are referred to as ,"The West Indies" featuring,"West Indian "culture.
    Ethnicities within West Indian culture may include trace Carib & Arawak Indigenous peoples,European peoples,Afro-Caribbean peoples and Indo-Caribbean peoples.

    "Indo-Canadian"is a commonly used term in the media,which may be a better fit than,"East Indian".
    Just as,"Indigenous/First Nation"may be a better fit than,"Indian/Native Indian".
    Perhaps,"Indian" applied to anyone living outside of India,carries the stigma of colonialist context.

    Engelbert Humperdink
    I'm just gonna call them Indians, because they're from India.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nightswhisper View Post
    I think it boils down to how far away you are from home.
    Good point. Anecdotally, lots of Vancouver SPs seem to be from a different province / part of province, any ethnicity. Young women can take chances much easier when away from the family.

    Stigma around sex work remains here, and can be much worse in "traditional" societies i.e. most places outside of Canada. In India, even kissing was taboo on TV not that long ago - how does that compare to an escort ad that relatives might see.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by felixthecat View Post
    Good point. Anecdotally, lots of Vancouver SPs seem to be from a different province / part of province, any ethnicity. Young women can take chances much easier when away from the family.

    Stigma around sex work remains here, and can be much worse in "traditional" societies i.e. most places outside of Canada. In India, even kissing was taboo on TV not that long ago - how does that compare to an escort ad that relatives might see.
    I think you're getting "warmer" in the sense that the proximity to their own community might dissuade any woman from sex work. Yet, I have met Vancouver-born caucasian girls...

    As for the "spring-board" theory, the Chinese community actually has longer roots in the lower mainland than the Indian community and even through the majority of Chinese SPs are foreign born, there are still more Canadian-born Chinese/other-Asians proportionally than Indians, Canadian-born & foreign totalled. Interestingly, if you explore LEOLIST and set preferences to the Greater Toronto Area, there are actually a lot of Indian SPs, many advertising as Canadian-born. Perhaps the dearth of Indian SPs in Vancouver & environs has something to do with the Hindu/Sikh split between those two regions? I don't really buy into the "honour killing" theory - sadly that happens - but that violent & retrograde patriarchy doesn't apply to any of the Indo-Canadians I've ever met.

    At the end of the day, I was just wondering if there were a parallel & underground network of Bollywood princesses operating in the Lower Mainland, LOL.
    But seriously, is there? What I would give to meet a local SP who resembled Jameela Jamil

  14. #14
    I'm half Iranian, and there are common parallels between Middle Easterners and people of South Asian descent. It's impossible as someone who has some understanding of the culture to narrow it down to any single factor. I think it would be easier to ask the current EI and Middle Eastern SP's what is it that lead them to becoming an SP, rather than wondering why there are presently not others in the industry. Saying stuff like fear of honor killings is an over-generalization. Does it happen? Yes, but at most I think girls would get disowned or their families would do some type of intervention ad they would likely believe their daughter/sister is mentally ill and needs help for choosing such a profession. Another possibility to consider as well is that there are likely SPs who may advertise themselves as a completely different ethnicity so as to keep that part about themselves private. South Asians can potentially pass for Hispanic, they can claim to be mixed, they can pass for Persian/Middle Eastern, and some can even go as far as claiming to be partially black. I know of one presently active SP who may be Middle Eastern (but advertises as white), while there was another Middle Eastern girl who years ago advertised as Hispanic.

    One thing, which is the case with ethnic families is that those who come and stay tend to do so because they've done well for themselves and for their family as a whole, so that financial need may not be there as much for people who come from said upbringing. Similarly, i notice ethnic parents in many cases will go as far as buying their kids cars, pay for their education, and later in life their weddings.. where in more western(ized) households if you wanted something you had to go out and work on your own to get it, and if you were a student you got student loans or worked numerous jobs to save up and pay... same thing with weddings. I noticed people from ethnic families had a tendency of having certain expenses paid for them, as opposed to those who come from westernized families. Another thing is there's a cultural elitism (in the case of Iranians at least) where if you're going to school it' better be to become a doctor, lawyer, or an accountant. It obviously doesn't always work out that way, but I can say that's another factor where people are expected to have a career in something that makes you seem important. This is sort of my personal observation based on my general circle. There's obviously other factors and it's only going to vary person to person.

    Presently there are SP's who are Indo-Canadian and Middle Eastern, and what it comes down to (despite familial pressures/taboos) is that if they truly wanted to provide services for those in the hobby then they would.

    Quote Originally Posted by E.H. View Post
    "Indo-Canadian"is a commonly used term in the media,which may be a better fit than,"East Indian".
    I could be wrong about this, but I believe Indo-Canadian may be in reference to more than just people from India. If I'm not mistaken I think it's supposed to be used to give a general description for just about anyone who could be from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, and Fiji...etc

  15. #15
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    There are quite a few EI aka Indo-Canadian ladies working in Metro Vancouver. If you were to filter by ethnicity on Leolist for Metro Vancouver today, you'd get more than three dozen unique SPs.

    A sample (no particular order, you'll need to check their reviews):

    Nitya Narula

    Priya Maha Rani

    Taria Sahari

    Aria 5885

    Shandy 7229

    Angie 7555

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