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Thread: Stephen Harper's former policy director is defending Trudeau's carbon tax

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    Stephen Harper's former policy director is defending Trudeau's carbon tax

    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...-tax-1.4832116

    Canadians in provinces with federal carbon tax would get more in rebates than they pay in tax, study suggests. The research was prepared by Dave Sawyer of EnviroEconomics for Canadians for Clean Prosperity, a group led by Mark Cameron, a former policy director in the Prime Minister's Office under Stephen Harper. Cameron spoke to As It Happens guest host Helen Mann about the study's findings. Check out the link for part of that conversation.
    I don't believe in god. I only believe in goddesses.

  2. #2
    the part about the rebate is crap

    in Alberta, you get 300/yr for a single person, if you drive 20,000 km/yr, the tax on gas is around 7.5 cents a litre, that alone is 200 or so, depending on fuel economy

    that doesn't include the increase in any other product, all of which are going up due to transportation costs, not to mention the utilities

    the actual natural gas, the cost of the gas, alone in Alberta is going to cost less than the tax Notley is putting on, due to the carbon tax

    she's already said that they will be taking in so much in Carbon tax that it will be going into general revenue

    it's not going to be revenue neutral, that's bullshit

    even for the average poor person the rebates won't cover what you will pay

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    Quote Originally Posted by overdone View Post
    the part about the rebate is crap

    in Alberta, you get 300/yr for a single person, if you drive 20,000 km/yr, the tax on gas is around 7.5 cents a litre, that alone is 200 or so, depending on fuel economy

    that doesn't include the increase in any other product, all of which are going up due to transportation costs, not to mention the utilities

    the actual natural gas, the cost of the gas, alone in Alberta is going to cost less than the tax Notley is putting on, due to the carbon tax

    she's already said that they will be taking in so much in Carbon tax that it will be going into general revenue

    it's not going to be revenue neutral, that's bullshit

    even for the average poor person the rebates won't cover what you will pay
    Maybe Cameron's group calculated based on average fuel consumption, which is 9 litre/100 km in North America. That's 1800 litres. Cost of gas in Alberta, say, is $1.32/litre. So total gas expense is $2,376. So total carbon tax, at the rate if 7.5%, is $178. $300 rebate minus $178 = $122 savings.

    Maybe Cameron has a point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thodisipagal View Post
    Maybe Cameron's group calculated based on average fuel consumption, which is 9 litre/100 km in North America. That's 1800 litres. Cost of gas in Alberta, say, is $1.32/litre. So total gas expense is $2,376. So total carbon tax, at the rate if 7.5%, is $178. $300 rebate minus $178 = $122 savings.

    Maybe Cameron has a point.
    Uh no....he is out of touch with fucking REALITY.....just paid the gas bill for August consumption and I foolishly used 1.2 gigajoules of natural gas during the billing period for essentially hot water as I have a gas fired hot water heater.Cost of the actual gas consumed was $2.96 and the Carbon Tax was $3....so I paid more for the fucking Carbon Tax than I did for the gas.I foolishly wanted hot water in the developed world so I could have a shower each day before going to work and to do laundry as I sure as fuck did not need to heat my home.This is at $30 a tonne Carbon Tax never mind $50 a tonne come 2023 which will be the end of a 2nd mandate if that idiot substitute drama get elected again.....by me and every other person BEING taxed actually LOWER emissions.....no fucking chance it will....it is just another TAX and with the GST piled right on top of it TAXING a Carbon Tax.

    I wont even get into the cost of the Carbon Tax on the 4 tanks of gas I have to buy each week to do my job but I do have to listen to the customers that BITCH about the increase of the fuel levy that is tacked on to each delivery and the same thing applies to consumers across the board....do you think grocery store chains and restaurants are going to absorb the cost as well as the minimum wage increase....not fucking likely they are going to hike prices.

    The Carbon Tax is a fucking rip off by greedy Tax and Spend more LIEBERAL/NDP governments both Federal and Provincial who VIRTUE SIGNAL about lowering emissions and then do fuck all about the issue.

    SR

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    Yes I agree but if the PC's (Federally and/or Provincially) get in will they lower idiot sticks carbon tax? I highly doubt it.
    Not with that type of revenue the govt is raking in now. As a Country I think we will be heading
    down the perverbial death row as this Carbon tax bullshit just maybe the straw that breaks the camel's back.
    I hope I'm wrong. But damn it's getting worse and worse being raped for more and more taxes that
    never seem to stop no matter who is in power.



    ......................QM'r

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarter Mile'r View Post
    Yes I agree but if the PC's (Federally and/or Provincially) get in will they lower idiot sticks carbon tax? I highly doubt it.
    Not with that type of revenue the govt is raking in now. As a Country I think we will be heading
    down the perverbial death row as this Carbon tax bullshit just maybe the straw that breaks the camel's back.
    I hope I'm wrong. But damn it's getting worse and worse being raped for more and more taxes that
    never seem to stop no matter who is in power.



    ......................QM'r
    If the Conservatives run on the promise to repeal the Carbon Tax they will do so as they keep their promises.They axed the multi BILLION boondoggle which was the long gun registry and they got rid of the wheat board.Whilst they did not promise to repeal the GST they did reduce it much to the anger of the Lieberals.Last hustings the Lieberals promised a bigger Child Tax Credit than the Conservatives.The difference between the two is huge though.Yes the Conservatives offered a bit less but it was NON taxable whereas the bigger Child Tax Credit promised by the Lieberals was FULLY taxable.The average "middle class" family that the Lieberals purport to "help" are paying $841 more a year in taxes and that is just in income taxes with no consideration or ramifications with regards to the Carbon Tax.

    SR

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by thodisipagal View Post
    Maybe Cameron's group calculated based on average fuel consumption, which is 9 litre/100 km in North America.

    Maybe Cameron has a point.
    then there is reality

    the fuel economy stats they quote are bullshit

    the ones the car companies put out, complete bullshit

    the vehicle I drive, I get 20-30% less than the sticker on it said when it was new, I've never gotten anywhere near what it said was average, not even close, even driving like a 80 yr old with a hat on who can't turn his head to do a shoulder check

    and that's with about half being highway miles

    and you're missing the rest of the equation, it isn't just gas, which even in your calculation is already about half of the rebate

    it's worse if you're a family you don't get the same amount times how many kids/people in your family, you get a set amount, not 300 per person
    or if you make over the cut off amount, you get nothing back

    it's natural gas, it's food, it's everything you buy, it's all going to have the carbon tax added, compounded

    not to mention the GST, which Trudeau isn't giving back

    there's GST on the Carbon Tax, just like on the tax on gasoline tax at the pump

    he doesn't have a point, he's spewing verbal diarrhea

    and it's already been reported that for the Carbon Tax to really change peoples behaviour, it would have to be in the 100+ range

    which is double his top amount

    which would drive the economy into a recession

    not to mention, how anyone thinks you're going to get your emissions to go down when you're importing a small city worth of carbon using people every year is just plain simple

    look at the "poser" environmentalists in BC, look at the amount of gas being sold there now, and when their carbon tax was implemented

    people just stopped due to the increase, then just sucked it up, cause it wasn't enough to bankrupt them and went back to their normal behaviour

    you need, less people, plus better tech, which isn't here yet, at scale

    or you pile drive the economy

    and then you still have India, China, the US and Russia spewing emissions anyway

    so it's kinda pointless, it's window dressing

    to make people feel good about themselves, even though it really is like spitting in the ocean

    it ain't going to make a difference

    they haven't met one target since this BS started, cause to do so would require too much
    Last edited by overdone; 09-23-2018 at 09:07 AM.

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    A HIGH FIVE to that ^.....nothing but the truth.

    SR

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    The Carbon tax is just that a tax.... reason to spend money on righting the wrongs of past government, giving out welfare to people that consistently find reasons not to work for themselves.

    Canada is rich in natural resources

    Personally I like to breathe clean air, but oil is cheap to burn, its cheaper than bottled water..... oil is usefull and easier to use, (fill up the tank and a engine burns it). Burning oil (gas etc) will always produce CO2.

    Ever breathe smog, or air that is contaminated with chemicals (even though its below the government set levels).... it sucks. Ever breathe that exhaust coming from your car..... Want to leave a clean planet for your children? Most assholes don't care about that, they just want to drive their cars fast.......and tell you to F off.....

    How many people loved the smoke from the forest fires in BC this summer...when the air quality was low the government suggested staying indoors....imagine a whole world filled with that shit..... you would have to live indoors and have filtered air to live. Need airlocks to go from outside to inside...

    The rich people have a plan. They mine and pollute the natural world and when the mine cant make them any more money, they leave and start over again somewhere else... now the miners and their families are left behind to deal with the pollution and the health problems left behind by the rich....

    Oil makes plastic, plastic is king to make things with.... we burn oil wasting it...

    The solution is alternate sources of energy (sun, solar, wind, geothermal, wave, nuclear- (fusion and fisson etc) but the one that will trump them all is hydrogen. When hydrogen burns it produces water..... To make hydrogen, use electricity to separate hydrogen and oxygen in the water molecule.

    Hydrogen can be used in fuel cells, but what would be best is an Internal combustion engine that burns hydrogen...

    What would be best would be using the carbon tax to pursue these technologies that get our dependence off of oil for energy, and not general government use.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by storm rider View Post
    If the Conservatives run on the promise to repeal the Carbon Tax they will do so as they keep their promises.They axed the multi BILLION boondoggle which was the long gun registry and they got rid of the wheat board.Whilst they did not promise to repeal the GST they did reduce it much to the anger of the Lieberals.Last hustings the Lieberals promised a bigger Child Tax Credit than the Conservatives.The difference between the two is huge though.Yes the Conservatives offered a bit less but it was NON taxable whereas the bigger Child Tax Credit promised by the Lieberals was FULLY taxable.The average "middle class" family that the Lieberals purport to "help" are paying $841 more a year in taxes and that is just in income taxes with no consideration or ramifications with regards to the Carbon Tax.

    SR
    Hah ha! Lieberals. Give in one hand take twice as much back in the other. Why do people consistently fall
    for their bullshit.
    The gun registry was so stupid it made my skin crawl as with this new plot of the Lieberals to
    BAN all handguns from law abiding responsible firearm owners who so much as hardly ever received
    a parking or speeding ticket in their lives.
    Oh........but this is to quell the killings and shootings that are so prevalent in our society.
    Cough, cough, cough.........WTF??? Oh yah, that law abiding citizen is the one doing drive by
    shootings in Surrey or wherever else these lowlife drug dealers who OWN illegal firearms that
    are not registered nor do they have the proper documentation, simply known as an RPAL
    to possess these little gems

    But banning everyone's legally registered restricted handgun is going to solve this problem.
    This must be the Lieberals retaliation ploy for the long gun registry being taken out of parliament
    and now have notched it up a whole lot more. If that goes through christ only knows they
    won't stop there. And the agenda of them bastards is written all over the walls.

    They simply want to disarm the masses. Much more easier to control that way.
    But don't go after the drug dealers and illegal firearms as there are not enough of them
    to even worry about.

    Did you folks know that every single person in Canada who legally owns a registered restricted
    firearm is put through interpol every single day to check on the owner to see if they have
    committed a crime or anything else that might warrant seizure of said firearms?
    That is a fact.

    I wish they had the ability to do that with all the illegal firearm owners but how would they
    find them. They are illegal and hidden out of sight aren't they. So we get the blame instead
    and that will solve the whole problem.
    What a wonderful spin on the Lieberal bullshit once again.

    If you find their agenda on restricted firearms offensive, which any person should as this
    is just another way of chipping away at taking away your rights and freedoms as a law
    abiding citizen who has done no wrong. We pay for those licenses and have to complete
    a course with hands on training to be able to posses such restricted licenses like an RPAL.

    Each time the gov't takes a little chip outta your freedoms its one step closer to total
    control of the masses. Is that what you want?

    Express your feelings write to your MLA, Parliament and so on, postage is free to the house
    of commons. Your cost? The piece of paper you wrote on and the envelope. Oh and a few
    minutes of your time.
    Here's a link www.oneclearvoice.ca



    .....................QM'r

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    Do all conservatives from Alberta pepper their conversation with "fucking" expletives, insults, and inuendo all the time? Do they only whine about carbon tax or also complain about income tax?

    Personally, I'd rather pay carbon tax, which economists call Pigouvian (also spelled Pigovian) tax which are designed to correct market failures to remove negative externalities. If it were up to me, I'd reform income tax, which is a tax on productivity.

    Cameron gave his opinion based on policy analysis. Even though I may not agree with his politics, I'd give credence to his opinion than to a bunch of anonymous Perberts who constantly degrade a Perb thread with constant use of expletives without adding anything remotely substantive.

    Alternative to carbon tax is regulation (e.g. cap and trade). Take your pick.
    I don't believe in god. I only believe in goddesses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thodisipagal View Post
    Do all conservatives from Alberta pepper their conversation with "fucking" expletives, insults, and inuendo all the time? Do they only whine about carbon tax or also complain about income tax?

    Personally, I'd rather pay carbon tax, which economists call Pigouvian (also spelled Pigovian) tax which are designed to correct market failures to remove negative externalities. If it were up to me, I'd reform income tax, which is a tax on productivity.

    Cameron gave his opinion based on policy analysis. Even though I may not agree with his politics, I'd give credence to his opinion than to a bunch of anonymous Perberts who constantly degrade a Perb thread with constant use of expletives without adding anything remotely substantive.

    Alternative to carbon tax is regulation (e.g. cap and trade). Take your pick.
    Dont paint ALL Conservatives in Alberta with a broad brush.Personally I am a small "c" conservative in that I believe/want lower taxes and smaller government(meaning less bureaucratic waste) for the betterment of society and I have no time for hard extreme right wing bible thumping nutjobs that want the abortion laws changed.I see the Carbon Tax for what it is and I see past the bullshit spin by both the Media and the Lieberals.It is a TAX on everything for the Lieberals to TAX and SPEND more.It will not lower emissions and it is nothing but VIRTUE SIGNALLING by the Lieberals.It was tried in Australia and then gotten rid of due to not only public outcry but also because it is a SHAM.

    As for the profanities suck it up buttercup.I am a driver by trade and I carve out my living by doing a job 12 hours a day and I have to deal with incompetent morons every day that should not even be allowed to have a drivers licence.It is an occupational hazzard so to speak.

    With regards to another post.All life forms on this planet that have lungs breath in oxygen and EXUDE CO2 which is CARBON DIOXIDE.All PLANT LIFE on this planet suck in/absorb CARBON DIOXIDE and produce OXYGEN....it is a symbiotic echange that is beneficial.Planes/Trains/automobiles use various types of oil derived fuel that produces CARBON MONOXIDE....which of course is never mentioned in the discourse of discussion by the Climate Alarmists/Doomsayers.

    SR

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by storm rider View Post
    With regards to another post.All life forms on this planet that have lungs breath in oxygen and EXUDE CO2 which is CARBON DIOXIDE.All PLANT LIFE on this planet suck in/absorb CARBON DIOXIDE and produce OXYGEN....it is a symbiotic echange that is beneficial.Planes/Trains/automobiles use various types of oil derived fuel that produces CARBON MONOXIDE....which of course is never mentioned in the discourse of discussion by the Climate Alarmists/Doomsayers.

    SR
    It seems all they focus on in their list of green house gases per say is CO2 and methane.
    Lets not give them any ideas about CO, the Lieberals might come up with a separate tax for
    that called gender neutral greenhouse gas.

    Also, sorry to say I couldn't agree more about the profanities towards Lieberals,
    and we had our share of them here for 16 FUCKING years.
    Bunch of thieving bastards that Kristy Kluck and her Klan.
    Ok, she didn't serve for 16 but she might as well have.




    .......................QM'r

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