US Immigration

Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,712
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Upstairs
Yes, the sounds of children crying for their parents is emotional (although, personally I've heard the same wails at daycares and first day of school), but is the message just anti-Trump, or isit really as Draconian as Democrats and outlets like CNN say?

I don't know the answer to this question, so I'll ask - If people are fleeing El Salvador and Guatemala, and make it to Mexico, but then travel the length of Mexico to enter the US, doesn't that make them economic migrants, rather than refugees? And isn't the onus then on them to try to access the US legally?
 

MissingOne

awake but not woke
Jan 2, 2006
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...If people are fleeing El Salvador and Guatemala, and make it to Mexico, but then travel the length of Mexico to enter the US, doesn't that make them economic migrants, rather than refugees? And isn't the onus then on them to try to access the US legally?
Do these people have the option of claiming asylum in Mexico?
 

Big_Guy_Rye

Pragmatic Pariah
May 7, 2018
802
620
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Everywhere in BC
Do these people have the option of claiming asylum in Mexico?
The Google answer is:

Asylum may be granted to people who are already in the United States and are unable or unwilling to return their home country because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.


...and that 'persecution' is only at a government level.

Mexico and South American problems are more or less about poverty and crime. The Cartels and other gang violence which isn't recognized as a 'formal government entity' (although it's suspected corruption is rooted deep into that infrastructure), is seen by the US as a problem that Mexico can only solve itself. Formerly, on paper, Mexico is against criminal organizations, therefore being as recognized as a "democratic society"; which then leave the US saying "okay, well we can't get involved."

NOW, that said, if the Governments south of the US were officially taken over by the Cartels, and become officially recognized as the reigning government.....and Mexico becomes a tyrannical state of oppression, where Cartels have their own "gestapo" and kill indiscriminately, then that is when all the illegal immigrants will start to cry for asylum when they illegally cross the border. And the US would have to comply (if Trump doesn't alter those asylum laws). But all that is unlikely, since Cartels just want to make their product and sell it without intervention; they don't care about running their country. It's safer for them to keep the government where they are, if not corrupt enough to keep them off their back. Which, again, gives the appearance of 'democracy' that the US can't do anything about. Besides, if Mexico does go tyrannical, then the US will just invade Mexico and nuke all the cocaine factories; and Cartels obvious don't want that.
 

wetnose

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2003
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South Vancouver
Here are the facts

"In April, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced a policy change (which differs from a law change) that would instate a “zero tolerance policy” for those attempting to cross the border into the United States. Prior to this policy change, anyone attempting to cross the border illegally was processed, detained, and sent back home.

Additionally, prior to the change, those attempting to seek asylum in the U.S. under both the Bush and Obama administrations were given due process, or those traveling with minor children were detained, interviewed, released back into the public, and expected to return to court at a later date to be judged based on the merit of their “credible fear” interview.

However, Sessions, and the entire Trump Administration, have now chosen to criminally prosecute anyone attempting to cross the border.

Period."

But hey, as long as they tattoo the kids with numbers, I'm sure they can track them down.

Wait, QR codes. Numbers are sooo 1941.
 
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Cock Throppled

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2003
4,712
572
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Upstairs
Here are the facts

"In April, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced a policy change (which differs from a law change) that would instate a “zero tolerance policy” for those attempting to cross the border into the United States. Prior to this policy change, anyone attempting to cross the border illegally was processed, detained, and sent back home.

Additionally, prior to the change, those attempting to seek asylum in the U.S. under both the Bush and Obama administrations were given due process, or those traveling with minor children were detained, interviewed, released back into the public, and expected to return to court at a later date to be judged based on the merit of their “credible fear” interview.

However, Sessions, and the entire Trump Administration, have now chosen to criminally prosecute anyone attempting to cross the border.

Period."

But hey, as long as they tattoo the kids with numbers, I'm sure they can track them down.

Wait, QR codes. Numbers are sooo 1941.
That ignored my earlier question, but it does seem the catch and release system wasn't working very well for a long time...http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article144893699.html
 

MissingOne

awake but not woke
Jan 2, 2006
2,170
350
83
The Google answer is:

Asylum may be granted to people who are already in the United States and are unable or unwilling to return their home country because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.
OK, I'll pose my question in different, more explicit language. These people are from Central America. They traveled through Mexico to get to the United States. Could they, instead of traveling all the way to the US, have asked for asylum in Mexico?

Mexico is not a great place for poor people, but it's probably better than the places the refugees come from. Does Mexico accept refugees?
 

87112

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2004
3,622
610
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*&^%
Got to say it is ridiculous to cage children. Are they that difficult to handle that for grown ups in a controlled environment that you need freaking cages? And what about sleeping in street clothes, could they not round up pajamas or something better than tin foil for blankets. They treat murderers on death row better with clothes and sleeping materials.
 

se7landrover97

Active member
Jun 30, 2011
252
148
43
It's really heart breaking that a child/baby is being separated from his parents. I don't know the answer to this question... it's just not right to separate them for a minor immigration violation. I've just become a grandfather a few weeks ago and seeing my daughter and her baby... I just can't imagine what would happen if they will be separated.

It's inhuman what they're doing over there.
 

LLLurkJ2

Keep on peeping
Jul 6, 2015
538
457
63
Vancouver
Yes, the sounds of children crying for their parents is emotional (although, personally I've heard the same wails at daycares and first day of school), but is the message just anti-Trump, or isit really as Draconian as Democrats and outlets like CNN say?

I don't know the answer to this question, so I'll ask - If people are fleeing El Salvador and Guatemala, and make it to Mexico, but then travel the length of Mexico to enter the US, doesn't that make them economic migrants, rather than refugees? And isn't the onus then on them to try to access the US legally?
Do you only do 'legal' things or are you like most of who self select what they abide by given a benefit/cost analysis?
 

wetnose

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2003
2,050
460
83
South Vancouver
Got to say it is ridiculous to cage children. Are they that difficult to handle that for grown ups in a controlled environment that you need freaking cages? And what about sleeping in street clothes, could they not round up pajamas or something better than tin foil for blankets. They treat murderers on death row better with clothes and sleeping materials.
Trump considers them to be an infestation so treats them accordingly. Be cruel to them so it discourages others.

Welcome to America! (/s)

Bless this couple for doing the right thing and showing the compassion of ordinary citizens.
 

MissingOne

awake but not woke
Jan 2, 2006
2,170
350
83
Yes, the sounds of children crying for their parents is emotional (although, personally I've heard the same wails at daycares and first day of school), but is the message just anti-Trump, or isit really as Draconian as Democrats and outlets like CNN say?

I don't know the answer to this question, so I'll ask - If people are fleeing El Salvador and Guatemala, and make it to Mexico, but then travel the length of Mexico to enter the US, doesn't that make them economic migrants, rather than refugees? And isn't the onus then on them to try to access the US legally?
My parents and grandparents came to Canada as economic migrants - in other words looking for better opportunities. As it happens, in the decades when they arrived, they could do so legally. None of them would have qualified to come to Canada under the present rules.

The migrants from Central America are following similar impulses to those of my immigrant ancestors, but coming from far worse places. They believe they have no legal means to do what they feel they need to do. As a child of economic migrants myself, I would be pretty damn hypocritical begrudging them the attempt. Desperate circumstances lead to desperate actions.
 

storm rider

Banned
Dec 6, 2008
2,545
6
0
Calgary
Whilst the current headlines about USA immigration policy look horrid in the media THAT is exactly what they are supposed to be as they are written by the LEFTIST media blasting the Trump administration and if it is not immigration it will just be something else on the LEFTIST cry baby radar.

Currently in Canada we have thousands of illegal border crossers fleeing to Canada because of the rhetoric in the USA and the numbers are starting to add up.When it comes down to it the people paying for their accommodation/food/medical care are Canadian tax payers....and I dont like that.

One guy I know from work emigrated from Poland years ago and he lived in Poland when the Iron Curtain was solid and he lived under communist rule as a teenager.He emigrated to Canada and did so by the rules.He arrived in Canada with his wife and a nest egg to start their new life after all the rigamaroll etc.He went through all the reams of paperwork and beauracracy etc and he got here and started his new life and a family.Yes he wanted a better life and he has worked for it at the same time he did not come to Canada with "nothing" so to speak.

Are these so called "refugees" that are trying to get into the USA by illegally jumping the border actually "refugees".....no they are not.They are "economic migrants" and it is the same thing that has been going on in Europe.....at the port of Calais there are tens of thousands of them all trying to get into Britain because Britain has the most lucrative of Social Programs...free housing/education/medical care and so on and that is why Brexit happened...because Britain decided that as a country it would not be dictated to by an unelected European Parliament how many "refugees" that had to take among a great many other things....like say how many fish a British fisherman could catch.

With regards to immigration in general I highly suggest watching the "Gumball Immigration" video on Youtube.I wont embed it as that has caused problems in the past.

SR
 

badbadboy

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2006
9,576
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In Lust Mostly
Whilst the current headlines about USA immigration policy look horrid in the media THAT is exactly what they are supposed to be as they are written by the LEFTIST media blasting the Trump administration and if it is not immigration it will just be something else on the LEFTIST cry baby radar.

Currently in Canada we have thousands of illegal border crossers fleeing to Canada because of the rhetoric in the USA and the numbers are starting to add up.When it comes down to it the people paying for their accommodation/food/medical care are Canadian tax payers....and I dont like that.

One guy I know from work emigrated from Poland years ago and he lived in Poland when the Iron Curtain was solid and he lived under communist rule as a teenager.He emigrated to Canada and did so by the rules.He arrived in Canada with his wife and a nest egg to start their new life after all the rigamaroll etc.He went through all the reams of paperwork and beauracracy etc and he got here and started his new life and a family.Yes he wanted a better life and he has worked for it at the same time he did not come to Canada with "nothing" so to speak.

Are these so called "refugees" that are trying to get into the USA by illegally jumping the border actually "refugees".....no they are not.They are "economic migrants" and it is the same thing that has been going on in Europe.....at the port of Calais there are tens of thousands of them all trying to get into Britain because Britain has the most lucrative of Social Programs...free housing/education/medical care and so on and that is why Brexit happened...because Britain decided that as a country it would not be dictated to by an unelected European Parliament how many "refugees" that had to take among a great many other things....like say how many fish a British fisherman could catch.

With regards to immigration in general I highly suggest watching the "Gumball Immigration" video on Youtube.I wont embed it as that has caused problems in the past.

SR
From what I gather from your posts is you are first generation Canadian with your father immigrating here from the UK. Probably immigrated easily because in those days white people got an easy incoming policy from Canada.

Fast forward 50 years. We have people from Syria walking in the snow to Manitoba in winter to get to Canada. Suffering frostbite and having their feet damaged forever.

What are we supposed to do? Say fuck you go home?

Pretty nice life you have had here but now you feel entitled to slam the door on other new immigrants. Not everyone gets to immigrate legally because of repressive governments or violent Cartels.

Eventually, you might realize how entitled you come across and how lucky your family was to be welcomed to Canada.
 

Ray

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2005
1,206
266
83
vancouver
Whilst the current headlines about USA immigration policy look horrid in the media THAT is exactly what they are supposed to be as they are written by the LEFTIST media blasting the Trump administration and if it is not immigration it will just be something else on the LEFTIST cry baby radar.

Currently in Canada we have thousands of illegal border crossers fleeing to Canada because of the rhetoric in the USA and the numbers are starting to add up.When it comes down to it the people paying for their accommodation/food/medical care are Canadian tax payers....and I dont like that.

One guy I know from work emigrated from Poland years ago and he lived in Poland when the Iron Curtain was solid and he lived under communist rule as a teenager.He emigrated to Canada and did so by the rules.He arrived in Canada with his wife and a nest egg to start their new life after all the rigamaroll etc.He went through all the reams of paperwork and beauracracy etc and he got here and started his new life and a family.Yes he wanted a better life and he has worked for it at the same time he did not come to Canada with "nothing" so to speak.

Are these so called "refugees" that are trying to get into the USA by illegally jumping the border actually "refugees".....no they are not.They are "economic migrants" and it is the same thing that has been going on in Europe.....at the port of Calais there are tens of thousands of them all trying to get into Britain because Britain has the most lucrative of Social Programs...free housing/education/medical care and so on and that is why Brexit happened...because Britain decided that as a country it would not be dictated to by an unelected European Parliament how many "refugees" that had to take among a great many other things....like say how many fish a British fisherman could catch.

With regards to immigration in general I highly suggest watching the "Gumball Immigration" video on Youtube.I wont embed it as that has caused problems in the past.

SR
Perhaps you could expand your horizons by looking beyond YouTube for events shaping our world.
 

80watts

Well-known member
May 20, 2004
2,420
627
113
Victoria
I like Stormriders bit on the "economic migrants". In reality it will be Canadian taxpayers footing the bill for the migrants that are crossing into Canada.

From what I remember in highschool social studies:
The HAVE and HAVE NOT provinces. In order to stop the spread of Canadians from one side of the country to the other, transfer payments were set up to prevent the multitude of Canadian people crossing the country looking for work (late 60/early 70s-- I think thats when it started).

But the truth of the matter (the way I see it), it was to prevent people in Quebec moving to other provinces... (After all the federal electoral areas were all based apon the population of Quebec which determines the amount of federal ridings across Canada). So the HAVE provinces of BC, AB, and ON in the 70s transfered money to all the other provinces to prevent population movement. (Not sure which provinces are the HAVE provinces now. )

Now look at the whole world. Migrants/Refugees from Africa going to Europe. Migrants/Refugees from the middle east going to Europe. Migrants/Refugees from South America/Carribean going to US/Canada.

Since the ending of the cold war, America, Russia, China, UK, France, and including Canada were major arms brokers to countries in Africa, Middle East, South America, Malaysia etc. All in the name of profit. The US and Russia created dictatorships (whatever the politcial gov type), throughout the 3rd world countries. For the US, most of those dictatorships have backfired on the US (Libya, Iran, Iraq). In all these disposed or failed countries, minority groups of religious/political have ceased weapons and were persecuting old tribal hatreds/economic issues/territorial claims etc. Creating Chaos in Africa and states like Syria. Causing people to flee the countries they were born in.

(kind of like Germany wanting the land of Eastern Europe to expand for its future population).

After WW2, the soldiers came back and basis said "fuck that shit". Here in Canada, reforms/(new laws passed) were made after WW2 to better and to enrich the lives of its citizens. Universal Health care started in the 50/60s, Unemployment Insurance, Old Age security. (Yes Canada is a socialist country). European countries did the same, some were better at it than Canada.

Canada immigration policy: We'll take some refugees, and the rest of you have to have money to immigrate. Pretty hard to walk to Canada, from Aftrica/Middle East etc.

Unrestricted population growth in certain areas (Haiti,India) have also added to the Refugee problems the World is facing. (Not enough resources to go around....)

Poor economic states in 3 rd world countries have contributed. (People looking for jobs to make money)

The west won the cold war through economics. Because it did, people in the world see it as the place to go to. The refugees head toward Europe, and North America. They don't go toward Russia, China, India etc...

Now see the pattern.....

To live you need shelter, food, water and clean air. Overpopulation and Environmental contamination are slowly killing the world and cycles of life on earth. See how that is eroding in the world we live in.

Noah's Ark in the 21 century is the planet Earth. I know of no other place that mankind can live and survive.
 
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