The Raquel Rose

Sexual Harassment - You Have To Be Careful.

take8easy

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2014
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I think I do not need to mention what is in the news these days. Many people at high places are being named in sexual harassment cases and so should they be, if they did it.

I think culture towards women is changing slowly but still society has a long way to go. Making sexual comments or saying dirty things in front of female coworkers in name of humor are still common at workplaces. I work with women myself and we all joke around a lot and sometimes, unintentionally things are said for a few laughs. But none of it is said in a flirtatious or suggestive way. But I think I am going think twice now.

Now, since this transition is going to be long and slow, people, especially men have to tread very carefully. What you might say as a harmless comment or a joke could be (mis)interpreted as sexual harassment. In the past, I never even thought twice about people touching their (both male and female) co-workers on the shoulder or patting their back as appreciation. An occasional friendly, and quick hug has always been very common.

I have never done anything sexual or naughty with any of my coworkers because firstly it is wrong to make advances (unless you sense something) and secondly and more importantly I don't think that having affairs at workplace is a good idea. The consequences could be disastrous. But we are talking about something different and that is a co-worker esp a female one accusing you of sexual harassment or making sexual advances.

I am not saying that the women in news are doing it for publicity. But I am sure there is a very small percentage of women who could ride this wave and try to make a quick buck by accusing a boss of harassment.

Do you think it will change the way you, especially men, will start to act around women? Are you being extra wary about the way you interact socially, orally (pardon the pun) or physically around your coworkers?

I know I will.

T8E
 

MissingOne

awake but not woke
Jan 2, 2006
2,170
350
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... Do you think it will change the way you, especially men, will start to act around women? Are you being extra wary about the way you interact socially, orally (pardon the pun) or physically around your coworkers?

I know I will.

T8E
Long ago, when I had a real job and real co-workers in an office and in the field, I always had a mental switch that just made any sexual or romantic interaction with co-workers off-limits. Even working with female colleagues in the field for days on end, sometimes just two of us, I never had any interest.

But, I remember once, a female co-worker walked into my office wearing a new dress that just looked great on her. It wasn't revealing or particularly sexy, in fact it was ankle-length and buttoned up to her neck. It just looked really good. Without even thinking, I just blurted out that the new dress looked great on her. Thankfully, she was happy to take it as a complement, and we went on with the accounting question she had come in to ask about.

I haven't worked in an office environment for a long time, but I get the impression that these days, if a guy comments on what a female co-worker is wearing, it could be grounds for a formal complaint. I'm thankful that I don't work in the modern office environment.
 

Ms Erica Phoenix

Satisfaction Provider
Jun 24, 2013
5,325
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In Your Wildest Dreams!
I think I do not need to mention what is in the news these days. Many people at high places are being named in sexual harassment cases and so should they be, if they did it.

I think culture towards women is changing slowly but still society has a long way to go. Making sexual comments or saying dirty things in front of female coworkers in name of humor are still common at workplaces. I work with women myself and we all joke around a lot and sometimes, unintentionally things are said for a few laughs. But none of it is said in a flirtatious or suggestive way. But I think I am going think twice now.

Now, since this transition is going to be long and slow, people, especially men have to tread very carefully. What you might say as a harmless comment or a joke could be (mis)interpreted as sexual harassment. In the past, I never even thought twice about people touching their (both male and female) co-workers on the shoulder or patting their back as appreciation. An occasional friendly, and quick hug has always been very common.

I have never done anything sexual or naughty with any of my coworkers because firstly it is wrong to make advances (unless you sense something) and secondly and more importantly I don't think that having affairs at workplace is a good idea. The consequences could be disastrous. But we are talking about something different and that is a co-worker esp a female one accusing you of sexual harassment or making sexual advances.

I am not saying that the women in news are doing it for publicity. But I am sure there is a very small percentage of women who could ride this wave and try to make a quick buck by accusing a boss of harassment.

Do you think it will change the way you, especially men, will start to act around women? Are you being extra wary about the way you interact socially, orally (pardon the pun) or physically around your coworkers?

I know I will.

T8E
Here's an idea of what it's like sometime to be a woman in the work place, and an example of why this is just the beginning...

In 2007, I was sitting in my primary place of employment on a contractual break, when my direct supervisor initiated the following conversation while the clients for whom I was directly responsible were all present & attending:

HIM (smirking): Ms Phoenix, how would you pronounce this word; the French verb "to push"? Is it POOsay or pooSAY? Poosay? Is it like pooSAY or POOsay? How would you pronounce it?"
Me (stunned): I think if I didn't know how to pronounce it, I would pick another word, like "remplacir", to replace.


Now. Let's take the words in italics away & replace them with less generic terms shall we? I was sitting in my classroom during a prep time & marking assignments while the Vice Principal was teaching French to the twenty nine or so 11 year olds in my class. I don't for a nano second believe he was doing anything other than enjoying my discomfort at him having found a way to repeatedly say the word "pussy' to a woman in front of a whole group of other boys, and if it made other girls uncomfortable besides me, oh well. Do you suppose he's still thinking about this incident 10 years later? Maybe he should be...there is no statute of limitations for sexual harassment charges in Canada.
 

golferjohn

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2015
1,281
325
83
Here's an idea of what it's like sometime to be a woman in the work place, and an example of why this is just the beginning...

In 2007, I was sitting in my primary place of employment on a contractual break, when my direct supervisor initiated the following conversation while the clients for whom I was directly responsible were all present & attending:

HIM (smirking): Ms Phoenix, how would you pronounce this word; the French verb "to push"? Is it POOsay or pooSAY? Poosay? Is it like pooSAY or POOsay? How would you pronounce it?"
Me (stunned): I think if I didn't know how to pronounce it, I would pick another word, like "remplacir", to replace.


Now. Let's take the words in italics away & replace them with less generic terms shall we? I was sitting in my classroom during a prep time & marking assignments while the Vice Principal was teaching French to the twenty nine or so 11 year olds in my class. I don't for a nano second believe he was doing anything other than enjoying my discomfort at him having found a way to repeatedly say the word "pussy' to a woman in front of a whole group of other boys, and if it made other girls uncomfortable besides me, oh well. Do you suppose he's still thinking about this incident 10 years later? Maybe he should be...there is no statute of limitations for sexual harassment charges in Canada.
not exactly apples/apples once children are introduced to the equation, mes oui?
 

grusse

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2010
3,003
1,212
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the fact that this asshat did that in front of 29 children makes it that much more disgusting.

I hope you do go after him,sounds like he has no business being an educator.
 

Jethro Bodine

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2009
4,369
1,361
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Beverly Hills. In the Kitchen eatin' vittles.
There are very likely a lot of people out there whose behaviour over the past 10, 20 or 30 years has them feeling very nervous right now.

As a father of a young woman I am glad this is all coming out now and we are actually having conversations about this.
And if I had a son I'd be glad as well. Not only because men can be victims as well but we, as men, need to step back and realize we have a responsibility to our mothers, sisters, wives and daughters to be better.
Will things change overnight? Likely not but hopefully this will be the start.
The perpetrators of these acts rely on the victims feeling they can't come forward.
If nothing else it will help victims realize they have nothing to be afraid or ashamed of and give them the strength to tell their stories as well as empowering future victims to not hide in the shadows.

Cheers
J
 

Har-Don

Member
Feb 16, 2009
259
19
18
Long ago, when I had a real job and real co-workers in an office and in the field, I always had a mental switch that just made any sexual or romantic interaction with co-workers off-limits. Even working with female colleagues in the field for days on end, sometimes just two of us, I never had any interest.

But, I remember once, a female co-worker walked into my office wearing a new dress that just looked great on her. It wasn't revealing or particularly sexy, in fact it was ankle-length and buttoned up to her neck. It just looked really good. Without even thinking, I just blurted out that the new dress looked great on her. Thankfully, she was happy to take it as a complement, and we went on with the accounting question she had come in to ask about.

I haven't worked in an office environment for a long time, but I get the impression that these days, if a guy comments on what a female co-worker is wearing, it could be grounds for a formal complaint. I'm thankful that I don't work in the modern office environment.
I think it's still ok to compliment people on their attire, but where, when and how it's said is as important as what's said. Also your reputation helps. If you were the office perv who lecherously looks at women all the time it might come across as creepy.
 

golferjohn

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2015
1,281
325
83
I think it's still ok to compliment people on their attire, but where, when and how it's said is as important as what's said. Also your reputation helps. If you were the office perv who lecherously looks at women all the time it might come across as creepy.
why risk misinterpretation at all? the dangers of having someone even remotely believe you as harassing is almost as damaging. Context is usually the determining factor at the moment the comment is being offered...just wait until it's taken out-of-context
 

take8easy

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2014
4,528
721
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This is a true incident.

I was busy with something when a female coworker called my name. I absent mindedly said, "Yes sir?"
She giggled, then looked down, stretched out neck of her top, looked at her own boobs, looked up back at me and laughed. I looked at her with, "What?" look.
Her response was, "Just checking.... (that she is still a woman.)".

It makes me cringe now thinking what if I had said something in return .........

Things happen at work place that are not intentional.... but it scares me that even the slightest innocent mistake could drag you on bed of coals...
 

summerbreeze

New member
Sep 19, 2004
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hmm, wonder if my outside the panties, ass caressing of certain Asian massage providers could get me in trouble

but then again the teasing she is doing prior to up selling might negate my indiscretion

guess it would be tough for a judge to rule on one of these two scenarios (joking of course but all kidding aside, wonder if there is a potential problem out there groping a strictly non-sexual massage provider)
 

MissingOne

awake but not woke
Jan 2, 2006
2,170
350
83
... wonder if there is a potential problem out there groping a strictly non-sexual massage provider
Surely there's nothing to wonder about? I don't see how that would not be a problem.
 

PerbMod

Conflict Resolution Guy
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Mar 28, 2015
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I have some experience in the area, from the side of the employer, in a past life. Harassment is defined in the eyes of the recipient, not the person making the comment or action. Things meant innocently or in jest can absolutely be harassment, even if the person making the complaint wasn't the target of the behavior. As far as the office goes, the old saying about pens and ink rings true. I have seen more than one office romance go bad and what was completely consensual is now the subject of an HR investigation because it ended badly or there was a change of heart.

"You look nice today" is about as far as you should ever consider going. Even with that, you shouldn't be doing so very often or you are tempting fate.
 

clu

Active member
Oct 3, 2010
1,282
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38
Vancouver
With respect to these "high profile cases", it's worth pointing out that Weinstein and even Louis C.K. (or Jian Ghomeshi to go back a tad) were nowhere near any sort of grey "nice dress" territory. The world hasn't gone mad as some in another thread seem to believe. Most sane people would recognise a line had been crossed. (And obviously same goes from Ms. Pheonix's Vice Principal story... clearly not an innocent comment misinterpreted.) Just be respectful and professional and you'll be fine.
 

kinky_guy

Member
Aug 27, 2003
87
8
8
Lower Mainland
For me it's simple. I go to work to perform tasks related to work not to socialize. I try as much as possible to separate my work life from my personal life. I don't initiate personal conversations with women at work.
 
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