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Thread: I think the lounge is fun...

  1. #1
    Edmontonsubbie
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    I think the lounge is fun...

    ...and, not only that, informative from time to time to time. Given that it consists (most likely) of people from diverse backgrounds, fascinating personal life stories, and opinions that sometimes won't quit even when they should...I enjoy posting things that bother me into here. Even if I get the odd snide remark about how this is a "review" board. I agree completely but this is the lounge. Reviews have their own place to be placed, and there seems little shortage of people available to remind the wayward poster. Having said that, I like that the corrections are issued to those who post in the wrong place. Nine out of ten times they simply didn't know better and they admit as much. Without the correction, they would continue to do so...and that's not helpful.

    Having said all of that in the preamble, I wish to take advantage of the communal intellect of the freethinking lounge. I have never been a union man. I have been conditioned, trained, exposed, lived, callitwhatyouwill, to fear unions. They cut into profits. They demand things. They get in the way of unfettered commerce. Unions bad....free enterprise good.

    I work for a union. I love the things that have been negotiated on my behalf. As I went through the training, I remember thinking to myself...wow...I have no questions here...any question I might have, has been addressed...and addressed fairly...by the collective agreement.

    I am called in for a "disciplinary" hearing/meeting tomorrow. WHAT??? Well, the original date was for the 16th but the management rep called me tonight to say....I see you are working on the 16th....how does tomorrow sound? I'm like...."cool, I was just about to call you to see if we could reschedule". In the letter it says, union representation is both available and advised....from the management point of view. I tell him..."No need"....he says...."you will need to sign a waiver"....I reply...."I have signed worse".

    After determining that I won't be fired out the door but rather face a few days suspension (I would SO love to have a few days off at this point) I will walk in there tomorrow and tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I will indicate that, given the same situation tomorrow, I would do exactly the same thing I did yesterday. I can't imagine a better way to live.

    My best friend (I have only one of those) tells me I am arrogant on occasion and I suppose I am. I have a set of principles that sits best when I have told the truth. I sleep better, I eat better, I interact better. And so, I won't deny the value of truth.

    And here's the truth....I suck. I juggle shit and try to pick the best option and often pick the worst. But, it's life and I do love that little thing called life.

    Most respectfully,

    eddie.

  2. #2
    Edmontonsubbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceGuy View Post
    OK, so your facing a discipline meeting & don't want a union rep / steward there. Why not? The Rep's role is just to give you a bit of advice before the meeting, be a witness to the event in case it goes sideways on you & because your union has the legal responsibility and obligation to look out for you.

    So if you won't have a union rep there, take a bit of advice from an old hand: The meeting itself and the letter that they will give you are the discipline. Accept it with as few words as possible & admit nothing. You don't have to agree or disagree with anything they say. You don't have to respond. You don't have to fight what they choose to hand out as punishment.

    The point of all this is that the discipline hearing is part of the basic groundwork to firing someone. They may have no intent to do that at this time as a result of whatever got you in trouble now. But it will wind up in your personnel file & can raise its head years later after spotless performance. Another minor incident & if they might want to toss you then, they look back on this one.

    Another point you probably want to review with your union rep is how to review your personnel file & get old items removed. Most union agreements allow you to look at your file every 1 or 2 years. You should do this & initial each page in it in pencil so next time you look, you can see what has been added. Also, a lot of collective agreements allow you to request the removal from your file all records of past disciplinary actions after a certain period of good behavior. Make sure you follow up on this so that this one screw up doesn't haunt you for the rest of your career. You might not think it a big deal now, but at some point, the difference between a black mark & a clean record could be what really decides who winds up on a lay-off list.

    These are some of the reasons why you really should talk with your rep.
    Peace,

    thank you. You bring up the reasons I wondered about....and I know it is reality....no matter how I self delude myself into thinking people are fair. I will still go into the meeting tomorrow without representation but I will walk if it is not documented or if and when the questions become uncomfortable.

    Thank you again, I appreciate your incitefully thoughtful reply. It was what I was hoping for.

    I need to get laid.

    kindest,

    eddie.

  3. #3
    Edmontonsubbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceGuy View Post
    Good luck. Always remember, it is a level playing field, but it's up to you to use use the rules to their best effect. I can't think of a worse feeling than being the guy with the pink slip when a guy that screwed up worse than you ever did still has a job because he used everything in the toolbox & you didn't at some point in your career. He'd probably feel bad for you too, maybe even a little guilty. But he won't be stepping up to take your place.

    Peace Guy
    thanks....

    and I know exactly what you mean....at least, i think so. I verified this is not a "pink slip" issue....even though I have enough self doubts to wonder why I haven't been fired long ago.

    I love your ramble...and I know it to be true...everyone looks out for themselves. Only a fool would not. I used to have many friends, perhaps I still do. But I have one who will place himself in harms way to cover my ass and I will do the same in return. I count myself lucky to have that....and I wish it was my partner...but it's not...so it's an adjunct...I doubt I will find my partner as I simply don't seek her any longer. I have two amazingly wonderful children and a relationship with their mother that I can live with. I have no complaints on that front and no interest in stirring a quiet pot.

    Thank you again,

    eddie.

  4. #4
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by edmontonsubbie View Post
    Peace,

    thank you. You bring up the reasons I wondered about....and I know it is reality....no matter how I self delude myself into thinking people are fair. I will still go into the meeting tomorrow without representation but I will walk if it is not documented or if and when the questions become uncomfortable.

    Thank you again, I appreciate your incitefully thoughtful reply. It was what I was hoping for.

    I need to get laid.

    kindest,

    eddie.
    Dude: at the risk of being disrepectful to the point where you tune me out - YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT IF YOU GO WITHOUT A REP. Aside from the other good reasons you've been given below, one of the key roles a rep plays is to be the buffer between you and management with respect to the emotions involved. Here's the hard reality, all of us, even if we've done wrong and are prepared to admit it, will experience the process of workplace discipline as something of an attack on our self-worth.

    One bit of advice below was wrong. that was the advice to admit nothing. there is no "right to remain silent" in employment law. quite the opposite - you have a duty to candidly and truthfully answer any reasonable question the employer puts to you. failure to that can be a seperate offence and can, in and of itself, lead to dismissal.

    An experienced rep can navigate those waters for you. A good one is not a shameless mouthpiece who will deny all and throw mud at the wall for you. A good one will hold the employer to account, find out what they've got on you, and advise you what to come clean on. It's generally waaaaaaay better to get out in front of admitting that you're wrong when you are, and then the disciplince can be mitigated.

    it's really important to remember that in a union shop, discipline is not supposed to be about ending the relationship, but about building it. It's called "constructive discipline" in the textbooks.

    Call your rep first thing, or call the employer and ask for the meeting to be delayed until you can get your rep there. It's your RIGHT! you paid the dues for those services! Why would you throw that away.

    Finally, - people fair? if people were honest and fair, there'd be no lawyers and no unions! no need for them.

    you need to shake off the indoctrination of our misguided capitalist system and understand that if you ain't the boss, you need a union!
    Remember, "S & M" stands for Sensual and Mutual

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by edmontonsubbie View Post
    .

    I am called in for a "disciplinary" hearing/meeting tomorrow. WHAT??? Well, the original date was for the 16th but the management rep called me tonight to say....I see you are working on the 16th....how does tomorrow sound? I'm like...."cool, I was just about to call you to see if we could reschedule". In the letter it says, union representation is both available and advised....from the management point of view. I tell him..."No need"....he says...."you will need to sign a waiver"....I reply...."I have signed worse".
    The management guy is playing good cop eddie, take your rep with you, changing your mind on what you originally told him is allowed. Which union?

  6. #6
    Edmontonsubbie
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    thank you so much....

    ...and I do mean that...for the cool and informed replies....I appreciate that. Being arroganT, so I'm told, I will go in tomorrow and simply state the truth. The chips will fall where they may and thank you Buddha for pointing out that "deception" is a punishable offense. I have far more many offenses that "THEY" haven't discovered than to voluntarily admit one. Nah, that's not true, I am a law abiding citizen and protest against anarchy.

    If they no longer wish for my services after tomorrow...then...c'est la vie. I really hope that's not the case....I love this job....but, it's a job. I can make or find a new one...I just like this one.

    thank you,

    eddie.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmontonsubbie View Post
    ...and I do mean that...for the cool and informed replies....I appreciate that. Being arroganT, so I'm told, I will go in tomorrow and simply state the truth. The chips will fall where they may and thank you Buddha for pointing out that "deception" is a punishable offense. I have far more many offenses that "THEY" haven't discovered than to voluntarily admit one. Nah, that's not true, I am a law abiding citizen and protest against anarchy.

    If they no longer wish for my services after tomorrow...then...c'est la vie. I really hope that's not the case....I love this job....but, it's a job. I can make or find a new one...I just like this one.

    thank you,

    eddie.
    How'd it work out, dude?
    Remember, "S & M" stands for Sensual and Mutual

  8. #8
    What I want to know is what you are in trouble for.

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