Carman Fox

DONT be-friend clients

Annalise Lane

sport sex enthusiast
Feb 2, 2005
1,898
8
38
Edmonton, Alberta
www.annaliselane.com
Trampdown just ripped me off of my donation. He was in Edmonton for a personal engagement, and we got together. In talking since 03/08 we have become online friends. When he found out he was coming to Edmonton, we where both excited to meet face to face.

I had surgery at the beginning of June, and told him we might not be able to play, but that I had a friend who was wanting some training. He declined this, but as the days got closer it turned out that I was feeling up to treating him like the sub he wanted to be.

As it turns out - my mistake !!

I picked him at his hotel at 11pm Sunday night.

We went for eats and wine to talk. It was so comfortable - like old friends.

I broght him back to my place where my dungeon was to show it off.

Slowly we started playing and things progressed nicely.

Chatted til 5am - and he took a cab back to his hotel.

I went down to the dungeon to see if he had left my donation - to find NOTHING.

So ever since that date June 23rd - I have felt like I'm begging for my rate. and to boot he wants to take off 50 for the taxi back to his hotel and the eats when we were out.

DONT become friends with clients is my lesson.
 

ASHLEYM

Banned
Sep 3, 2007
213
0
0
Trampdown just ripped me off of my donation. He was in Edmonton for a personal engagement, and we got together. In talking since 03/08 we have become online friends. When he found out he was coming to Edmonton, we where both excited to meet face to face.

I had surgery at the beginning of June, and told him we might not be able to play, but that I had a friend who was wanting some training. He declined this, but as the days got closer it turned out that I was feeling up to treating him like the sub he wanted to be.

As it turns out - my mistake !!

I picked him at his hotel at 11pm Sunday night.

We went for eats and wine to talk. It was so comfortable - like old friends.

I broght him back to my place where my dungeon was to show it off.

Slowly we started playing and things progressed nicely.

Chatted til 5am - and he took a cab back to his hotel.

I went down to the dungeon to see if he had left my donation - to find NOTHING.

So ever since that date June 23rd - I have felt like I'm begging for my rate. and to boot he wants to take off 50 for the taxi back to his hotel and the eats when we were out.

DONT become friends with clients is my lesson.

Do you mean Tampdown from this board or someone else? Sorry it happened to you! That sucks big time:(
 

tampdown

New member
Dec 15, 2005
173
0
0
Hmmmmm.....

Okay… here’s my point of view

I did not rip her off because:
-I thought we were playing as friendship
-we had no specific conversation about sessions fees before we started sessioning

Annalise states herself:
-we had become online friends
-we were excited to meet face to face
-she brought me back to her place to show her dungeon off
-we started playing slowly (This was at her initiative)
-things did progress nicely

She began by telling me to put up my hand and she began whipping it. At that point I was fully clothed. There was no mention of – okay, we are now sessioning (out of friendship mode). Rather, it was… let me show you my dungeon…. Why not raise your arm with your hand out stretched so that I can whip it…. Why not take off your shirt so that I can whip some cloth pegs off your nipples....etc

If I had known that the evening was basically just a set up for a session, I would not have gone. I would not have spent money at a restaurant or on a tax.

So basically… it felt that I was set up.

The lesson for Annalise:
NOT – don’t become friends with clients
RATHER – if you are going to become friends with client be sure to communicate before any session/play activity what your rate is and make sure the friend/client is in agreement before the session starts.

tampdown

ps. I really don’t want to play this out on here, but I felt compelled to respond. Hopefully people will be able to see that this is the result of mutual misunderstanding and lack of communication.
 

Annalise Lane

sport sex enthusiast
Feb 2, 2005
1,898
8
38
Edmonton, Alberta
www.annaliselane.com
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 11:49:11 AM): I had thought we could just meet up, hang out and play
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 11:49:20 AM): but... that doesn't seem possibl;e
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 11:49:38 AM): so... I was wondering what you were thinking about your gf?
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:29:45 PM): she hasn't played since she came to me for training
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:31:34 PM): so.... are you still thinking about the 3 of us getting together?
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:31:51 PM): that is up to you
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:31:57 PM): I have to admit that it does sound tempting
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:32:24 PM): but... you said before that would mean giving her a session fee?
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:32:49 PM): I would give her my session fee yes - my time would be free
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:33:04 PM): which sucks ass right now as I'm finding things tight
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:33:41 PM): so... that would be 200 or more?
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:35:09 PM): ummmm
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:35:20 PM): my dom rate and my escort rate are the same - 250

LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:35:57 PM): but we can just meet and enjoy each others company face to face and NOT play
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:36:05 PM): I really dont know if I'm going to be able to play
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:36:53 PM): well... i guess if you were to meet me you might find me too much to resist <-- this seems to be the problem !!

As stated in chat over the last few weeks as I begged for my donation ~rolls eyes~ - - - - I dont know why the msn dates are as they are - lol

And back at you Trampdown - lol - how is there any confusion when I'm a Pro.
 

tampdown

New member
Dec 15, 2005
173
0
0
Hmmmmm.... (again)

Okay… some things…

1. This is from a private online conversation so I’m a bit shocked to see it copied word for word
2. The conversation has to do with giving another escort a session fee… not you.
3. As such it concerns an entirely different scenario
4. From the conversation you can see that I am hesitant to go forward with this particular scenario because of the session fee
5. This is obviously not a straightforward matter
6. Your msn dates are weird, but this conversation did not take place just before we got together

tampdown
 
Last edited:

edmontonsubbie

Edmontonsubbie
Apr 22, 2006
1,307
19
38
112
uh...Edmonton.
Okay… here’s my point of view

I did not rip her off because:
-I thought we were playing as friendship
-we had no specific conversation about sessions fees before we started sessioning

Annalise states herself:
-we had become online friends
-we were excited to meet face to face
-she brought me back to her place to show her dungeon off
-we started playing slowly (This was at her initiative)
-things did progress nicely

She began by telling me to put up my hand and she began whipping it. At that point I was fully clothed. There was no mention of – okay, we are now sessioning (out of friendship mode). Rather, it was… let me show you my dungeon…. Why not raise your arm with your hand out stretched so that I can whip it…. Why not take off your shirt so that I can whip some cloth pegs off your nipples....etc

If I had known that the evening was basically just a set up for a session, I would not have gone. I would not have spent money at a restaurant or on a tax.

So basically… it felt that I was set up.

The lesson for Annalise:
NOT – don’t become friends with clients
RATHER – if you are going to become friends with client be sure to communicate before any session/play activity what your rate is and make sure the friend/client is in agreement before the session starts.

tampdown

ps. I really don’t want to play this out on here, but I felt compelled to respond. Hopefully people will be able to see that this is the result of mutual misunderstanding and lack of communication.
i'm with tamp on this one....i have also served Annalise when a visiting dignitary from afar came calling...and i did that without expectation nor anticipation of paying any sort of session fee. I did it as well as I could and I enjoyed the evening immensely.

I have a high regard for Miss Lane and she was the very first to welcome me to this board way back when. While i dislike the drama....perb is what it is. I think tamp has shown some amazing restraint...yes, i am taking his side.

Classic Sub (7/24/2008 11:49:11 AM): I had thought we could just meet up, hang out and play
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 11:49:20 AM): but... that doesn't seem possibl;e
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 11:49:38 AM): so... I was wondering what you were thinking about your gf?
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:29:45 PM): she hasn't played since she came to me for training
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:31:34 PM): so.... are you still thinking about the 3 of us getting together?
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:31:51 PM): that is up to you
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:31:57 PM): I have to admit that it does sound tempting
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:32:24 PM): but... you said before that would mean giving her a session fee?
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:32:49 PM): I would give her my session fee yes - my time would be free
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:33:04 PM): which sucks ass right now as I'm finding things tight
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:33:41 PM): so... that would be 200 or more?
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:35:09 PM): ummmm
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:35:20 PM): my dom rate and my escort rate are the same - 250

LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:35:57 PM): but we can just meet and enjoy each others company face to face and NOT play
LadyTaryn Mistress (7/24/2008 12:36:05 PM): I really dont know if I'm going to be able to play
Classic Sub (7/24/2008 12:36:53 PM): well... i guess if you were to meet me you might find me too much to resist <-- this seems to be the problem !!

As stated in chat over the last few weeks as I begged for my donation ~rolls eyes~ - - - - I dont know why the msn dates are as they are - lol

And back at you Trampdown - lol - how is there any confusion when I'm a Pro.
Okay… some things…

1. This is from a private online conversation so I’m a bit shocked to see it copied word for word
2. The conversation has to do with giving another escort a session fee… not you.
3. As such it concerns an entirely different scenario
4. From the conversation you can see that I am hesitant to go forward with this particular scenario because of the session fee
5. This is obviously not a straightforward matter
6. Your msn dates are weird, but this conversation did not take place just before we got together

tampdown
that conversation transcription only proves tamps point...at least, the way i see it. To post an intimate conversation without the other's consent...not cool.

that was fucking funny!!!!

it looks like you are busted
define who please.

Miss Lane....i will be stopping by within a week with $200 to pay for the cool goods that You provided to me. That bench and cross are worth that at a minimum. You are a good soul Miss Lane.

eddie.
 

Annalise Lane

sport sex enthusiast
Feb 2, 2005
1,898
8
38
Edmonton, Alberta
www.annaliselane.com
Miss Lane....i will be stopping by within a week with $200 to pay for the cool goods that You provided to me. That bench and cross are worth that at a minimum. You are a good soul Miss Lane.

eddie.
Thank you eddie for noticing I'm a good soul -

eddie - I didn't give you the bench and X - I gave it to your Mistress Free of charge, with NO expectation of payment. You are welcome to the other bench if you pick up the pieces from the fix it shop.

I also never discussed payment for service when you came to make sure our Dinner was fun and in the BDSM theme. If I had expected money it would have been discussed. YOU and I have never had that converation, but tampdown and I have on many occations and therefore I am in the right.

However, I have always said "if a dude needs to rip me off, he needs what I offer more than I need the money" tampdown offered me 200 today, and stated he wanted to take off the resturant bill and the taxi home at 5am. This is where I got angry and discontinued our conversation. My rebutal to this horrific offering was - "than I will expect the entire time covered"

by your own admission tampdown you are infact saying you'd pay my gf but no me .. HOW fucking rude. But than again, from your behavour in these last few weeks it doesn't surprize me.

so tampdown - you need to understand - me coming to perb and outting your pathetic antics means I dont care if you pay me, but others here need to know YOU will and very well have done/do this again. I am here to warn all the other ladies who might deal with YOU to be CLEAR in their payment.
 

DominaPandora

Pain and Pleasure
Jun 10, 2008
75
1
0
49
Edmonton, AB
Thank you eddie for noticing I'm a good soul -

eddie - I didn't give you the bench and X - I gave it to your Mistress Free of charge, with NO expectation of payment.
Indeed, this is the case. Thank you again, Annalise. It was most kind. :p
 

tampdown

New member
Dec 15, 2005
173
0
0
Hmmmmm.... yet again

AL,

1. Clarity regarding payment: I couldn't agree more. That was precisely the problem. I can honestly say that when we began to play it seemed to me that we were doing it as friends. That was my honest apprehension. There was NO indication otherwise.

2. Paying your gf: Yes, I would have paid your gf, because we had specifically talked about payment. She is/was not a friend. I didn't know who she was. It's a completely different situation.

3. Payment for service: this was NOT discussed prior to the session. We got together to hang out... and out of that we began to play at your initiative.

As I said previously, it feels like I was set up.

tampdown
 

DominaPandora

Pain and Pleasure
Jun 10, 2008
75
1
0
49
Edmonton, AB
i'm with tamp on this one....i have also served Annalise when a visiting dignitary from afar came calling...and i did that without expectation nor anticipation of paying any sort of session fee. I did it as well as I could and I enjoyed the evening immensely.

I have a high regard for Miss Lane and she was the very first to welcome me to this board way back when. While i dislike the drama....perb is what it is. I think tamp has shown some amazing restraint...yes, i am taking his side.


Without direct knowledge, one should reserve judgement. Especially when one wears a collar. Your personal experience is irrelevant to this situation, pet.




that conversation transcription only proves tamps point...at least, the way i see it. To post an intimate conversation without the other's consent...not cool.

This is not your battle, it does not concern you. Heel and mind your place.


Miss Lane....i will be stopping by within a week with $200 to pay for the cool goods that You provided to me. That bench and cross are worth that at a minimum. You are a good soul Miss Lane.


eddie.
Pups should be mindful, but often forget. Discipline often assists in memory.
 

uncleg

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2006
5,461
591
113
Like the man said in..

Cool Hand Luke, "what we have here is a failure to communicate."

As Ms. Lane states, "I am a pro." That being the case she should have been professional enough to set the perameters of this meeting. Nothing in what either party has posted so far would indicate that they went into the meeting to have it lead to a session. It would appear she started the play without any indication that she wanted compensation. Tampdown, I'm on your side in this. You do not owe her any money and in fact I would say she owes you an apology for coming on this Board to claim you ripped her off. As the "pro" and the Domme she should have been in charge. To make a point about the perils of becoming to friendly with a client/potential client is one thing. She could have told what happened without putting your name into it. The fact she did is not the behaviour of a "pro".
 

_Gypsy_

New member
Nov 21, 2007
62
0
0
Surrey, British Columbia
From what I see...

...I see something that makes me wonder...

The dates that these chats apparently happened have not even occurred yet this year. Today is July 10, 2008 and that chat log says July 24. 2008 :confused: What's up with that?

Also..if you are going to charge for a session then you better make sure you talk about the fee's, duration & scene negotiation right before it starts because if you don't? Then you are playing without getting paid.

From what I see here...there was something forgotten and that was the Professional forgetting to cover her end of things and now trying to make him pay when that wasn't discussed neither at the start of that evening or as she was starting the play.

So in my opinion - just going from the black and white evidence provided:

Not Guilty.

Let it go, sounds like you learned a painful lesson at a time that you are really needing the money. I empathize - I hate having to kick myself in the ass for doing stupid stuff too!
 

Poeticus

Member
Nov 1, 2007
60
0
6
Transitioning from a "hang-out" date to "pay-for-fee service" without clear communication.....

....sounds like both should have checked, even at risk of disrupting the momentum.

A nice date might plant the seed,
I'd expect a pro to take the lead.
 

edmontonsubbie

Edmontonsubbie
Apr 22, 2006
1,307
19
38
112
uh...Edmonton.
Pups should be mindful, but often forget. Discipline often assists in memory.
How do you spell idiot??....eee...dee...dee...eye...eee....

There are two sides to every story....goodness knows i know that. I can't undo my stupidity on jumping into this thread with zero knowledge, but i can apologize. Sorry Miss Lane. i'm obviously sorry to Mistress Pandora for being a mouthy slave talking where i have no business talking.

For everyone else, how's the weather? Oh...and don't worry on finding bendable steel rod...i got that covered....

eddie.
 

Miss*Bijou

Sexy Troublemaker
Nov 9, 2006
3,138
44
48
Montréal
I will be very careful about accept favours from clients. I will no longer go way overtime because I'm having fun with someone. I can't be the kind of friendly me I like to be, unfortunately. It just never works in anyone's favour in the long run. It sucks but it just is how it is.

xoxo
Nina

Aaaah yes, couldn't agree with you more. But how do you go from being the friendly you you like to be, to the friendly you you need to be? Please give me your notes, Nina... I must have been sleeping in class that day because there is only one friendly me I'm able to be. :p ;)

I dunno, I do think I've managed to set boundaries I'm comfortable with and this work is responsible for forcing me to do it, which is great. But I don't know if I will ever be able to go all the way with it... I think it's all just a matter of finding a balance that works, where it still feels natural (the friendly you you like to be) but where you learn to anticipate certain traps and draw the line before falling into them.

Not sure if my explanation makes any sense....:eek:
 

Annalise Lane

sport sex enthusiast
Feb 2, 2005
1,898
8
38
Edmonton, Alberta
www.annaliselane.com
Thank you everyone for your opinions !

No more msn chatting - No more getting close to strangers - NO more this and no more that - so sad I love the visits as much as the sex.

Oh well - live and learn - but fuck I should have learned this leason long ago.
 

tampdown

New member
Dec 15, 2005
173
0
0
Seems to me that there is a responsibility on both people to be clear, especially when a friendship begins due to the professional services one offers, or one is seeking. It is the professional's responsibility, but it is also something the person who started out as a client should know deep down needs to be clear as well.
Nina,

I hate to keep this going, but I do feel there are some things I need to clarify just “for the record”:

-I have never been a client of Annalise
-The friendship did NOT begin on the basis of the professional services she offered
-It was NOT a case of me being a client and friendship developing from that
-Annalise initiated contact through messenger and we had developed an online friendship

Because of these facts, I’m not sure if your analogy of the masseuse applies… because I was NOT a client who had become a friend. Our relationship was one of friendship.

But… you are right about the potential problems with boundary lines. Although personally… I have never had this problem before.

tampdown
 
Aug 16, 2006
980
10
0
But… you are right about the potential problems with boundary lines. Although personally… I have never had this problem before.

tampdown
I am reluctant to get involved with this but had to comment on this last quote Tamp. 'Never' is a very strong word. Are you really sure about that?

In my life experience it often takes 2 to tango and no one person is ever 100% right or wrong.

Just because several people seem to take your side on this particular matter none of us will know every nuance of every communication you and she had. I wonder if you had all the money in the world if you would have given her at least a 'tip' or token of gratitude for the play part of the night...or AFTER, when you realized she had expected something if you would have just sent her 'something' to smooth things over...? Especially if you really enjoyed the play and valued her 'friendship'. Maybe not? It could be a lack of extra money for this type of play at this time that caused some of the problem?

I'm only guessing of course. There's nothing wrong with befriending a Pro of any kind and enjoying her services for free but if I had the money I think I would at least offer something as a gesture of respect. I wouldn't expect a friend who is a machanic to fix my car for free. As soon as he started to work on it I would offer something, maybe not his full hourly rate, but I wouldn't expect his service for free. As a friend, I would think it might even be awkward for him to bring up the money and it would be up to me.

I know this has been the case for friends who have worked on my computer. I at least offered to take them for a nice dinner or give them a couple bottles of wine. I did not expect their professional services for free, even though I've been close with them for years.

I'm not taking anyone's side here, and I don't think anyone else should either. I do feel like the clients name shouldn't have been posted. AL could have vented about this and looked for imput without using Tamp's name. If it was a black & white rip-off situation: yes. But this is not B&W.

I admit it has been an exciting read and I've been checking back to see what people are saying. Lord knows we need more action in the BDSM section anyway we can get it.

Maybe I'll start a filthy rumor about myself to stir the pot?

(Psssst: Mistress T keeps a sex slave gimp in her closet who is only allowed out to lick her pussy and post on Perb. Can you guess which famous Perbite it might be?)
 
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