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Serial killer may be preying on Edmonton sex trade workers

Makhno

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Nov 11, 2003
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Beyond the Pale
Serial killer may have struck again

Canadian Press
POSTED AT 8:14 PM EDT Tuesday, Jun 15, 2004

Sherwood Park, Alta. — Mounties have suggested that a serial killer may be responsible for a number of bodies found dumped in a wooded area after an autopsy Tuesday revealed the identity of remains found last weekend.

Police have identified the body found last Friday northeast of this community as Rachel Liz Quinney, 19, of Edmonton.

Ms. Quinney was known to police as a sex trade worker.

Since 1988, the bodies of twelve other people — many of them sex trade workers — have been discovered within a 17-kilometre radius of the site in Sherwood Park, a community that is east of Edmonton.

RCMP have said a serial killer could be responsible for some of the deaths.

“At this point in time we are comfortable in saying that one person may, and I emphasize the word may, be responsible for more than one of these homicides,” said Cpl. Wayne Oakes.

Forty investigators have been assigned to the case, including Project Kare, a special task force looking into dozens of cases of murdered or missing women in Western Canada.

Police will not say how or when Ms. Quinney died, but they are treating the case as a homicide.

“This is a homicide and unfortunately a lot of aspects of the investigation must be treated as evidence and accordingly will come out in a court of law,” said Cpl. Oakes.

RCMP are warning women who work in the sex trade to take extra precautions.
 

sunnysideup

Member
Mar 7, 2003
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What if it is a serial killer?

It begs the question, doesn't it? If the same person or persons are responsible for 13 deaths, what should be done with him or them - assuming that there is no question about guilt?

The last time the question was put to the test in Canada, we gave him life in prison and gave his family $100,000.00. I don't believe we have a verdict on the pig farmer yet.

Any thoughts?
 

Pussyman

Banned
Dec 25, 2002
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Colonel Dave said:
Does the same go for the drunk driver, CG?

How 'bout the meth-head who knifes someone 'cause he's comin' down an' he needs to score another hit?

How 'bout the 98lb woman who gets off on beating up her 200lb boyfriend 'cause she knows he won't fight back 'cause "you don't hit girls" and she "accidently" goes too far?
Come on now Colonel Dave, lets try comparing apples with apples and oranges with oranges. Does someone go to a bar with the intention of killing someone on their way home? I rather doubt it. Yes they deserve a stiff jail sentence and should never be allowed on the road again. Does a gal who has an abusive mate not be allowed to fight back? Hell Yes. Any guy who beats up woman is a piece of crap and in my mind and deserves what they get.
Does someone who premedatates going out and picking up a SW with the intention of taking her life deserve to live? HELL NO!!! Sorry but I feel that in cases like this the death penalty should be brought back as a detterent as there definately is not one now. :mad: Our justice system is a joke. I'm sure there all kinds of statisitics to back either side of the debate, but it all goes back to what has been discussed on this board many times before. In todays society there seems to be a total lack of respect for your fellow man.
 

Bueller

New member
Jul 15, 2003
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So, kill people who kill people to show people who want to kill people that killing people is wrong?

Why should murder be the only crime where the punishment equals the crime? Why not have rapists raped? Molesters molested? Why not bring in capital punishment? Not many will be caught stealing twice in Saudi Arabia.

For the death penalty to be effective, it has to have infallible means of determining guilt. In the U.S., 90% of deathrow inmates were unable to afford a lawyer when tried or given a hearing. Despite being a significant minor ethnicity, black people make up over half of those on death row. And women, who commit 15% of capital crimes down there, make up less than 1% of the death row population. However, they all have some things in common: lack of funding and lack of firm social roots.

And let's not forget the sophists who "know" a person is guilty of a murder. Eyewitnesses are one of the least effective tools for truly determining guilt, yet the common masses take their words as fact. Yes, forensics are helping progress the guilt & innocent debates, but an incompetent, inexperienced, or overwhelmed lawyer can still lose a case.

Sorry to propagate the threadjack. I get annoyed at the death sentence. Which, by the way, was in the Canadian books until 1999.
 

Hit Man

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Nov 18, 2003
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When I was high school aged I was against the death penalty. My Dad, who was a very wise man, explained his decision to support it thusly. If we, as a human race, are here for any reason it is to better ourselves, both personally and as a species. After many years of mulling it over I am now a supporter. In fact, I now believe that any person that rapes a child should go too. I tend to agree it is not a deterent. Most who committ crimes like premeditated murder are sociopaths and can not be deterred anyway. And I certainly don't want my tax dollars used to support someone like that. 2 more cents...
 

Bueller

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Jul 15, 2003
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Hit Man said:
If we, as a human race, are here for any reason it is to better ourselves, both personally and as a species.
How does culling the species improve it? Are we so civilized that we cannot reform, we must retire? What benefit to society beyond removing a murderer from society is there? There are a billion questions that can lead easily to non sequitor, so I shall digress.

I'm sure you've put as much time into deliberation over this as I have. While I haven't saught out my father's opinion, I have performed my own research. Whatever arguments stand, the truth is that the death penalty is not an economically sound (short of summary executions) nor socially just punishment. In a multi-ethnical society, it's inevitable that the predominant affluent majority will be found guilty less than the minorities. And that the costs of a "fair and just" execution are prohibitive are widely known, so perhaps we can save a buck and institute summary executions.

A jury saying someone committed the crime does not mean the person comitted the crime. It just means 12 people believed the crime was commited by the charged.

Who among us wants our lives (or the lives of anyone else, for that matter) in the hands of 12 peers?
 
SGG,

I hate to say it, but we have to look at the fact that certain members of our society are considered "disposable"

The victims for the most part were native (unless I am mistaken, and if I am please feel free to correct me)

The victims were also sex trade workers, true street walkers, but in the trade none the less

The victims seemed to have substance abuse problems (again, I may be mistaken)

Can you think of 3 bigger strikes against you?

As for the police response, or delay in same, or even lack of same, rather a sad commentary on what we value as a society.

Dammit, what if that was your sister, mother, aunt, cousin? I would have been going psycho to the media etc. and forced the point!

Hope they find the bugger
 

Pussyman

Banned
Dec 25, 2002
793
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Colonel Dave said:

I love this justification for the death penalty!!! There's no respect for your fellow man so let's kill the fuckers who dare to kill!

But only if we can prove that they meant to do it, right? Now we're back to proving sanity, aren't we?
Colonel Dave, now you're turning my words around. How by me saying that there seems to be an increasing total lack of respect for your fellow man, do I come off justifying the death penalty? Yes I am pro death penalty but only in cases where it is premedated and proven beyond a doubt that the person is guilty. You make it sound like I want to fry every bad mother f***er out there? I still don't understand how you can compare a drunk driver to someone who preys and kills innocent people? And yes SWs are gods children too.
As for the sanity thing, thats the oldest excuse in the book and frankly I'm getting tired of everybody getting off scott free or receiving light sentences because of it. I agree that there are some disturbed pepole out there and they desparately need help and guidance. But how many times has someone on parole or early release gone on to kill again. It happens far too often. I would honestly like to know how you would react if someone in your family or very close to you was a victim. You might not be so ready to forgive or forget. :(
 

Guy4fun

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Jul 17, 2003
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I have read with interest the varied opinions posted and decided to put in my $0.023 (adjusted for inflation) worth!

I think it is horrible that any person in our society has to fear for their safety. When I hear of the light or non existant sentances handed out to the creeps who view or propogate child pornography my blood boils. The most vulnerable and powerless persons in our society betrayed by adults and abused in horrible ways has to be taken seriously. The murder of women who work in the sex trade is almost as equally horrible. I say almost only because no matter how screwed up your childhood may have been, as an adult (which the vast majority of the women in question are) they do have a personal responsibility to not put themselves into harms way.

I think there are a couple of things as Canadians we need to consider. First of all, our "Correctional Institutions" are a joke and it is well known that they do nothing to "correct" offenders but they typically come out of prison more screwed up then when they went in. The second term we use is "Penatentary" which is derived from the root word Penance. This too is a joke as our "justice system" provides no real justice for crimes committed, no penance is really paid with the sentences given.

I think it comes down to allowing justice to be served. I honestly do not know what I would do if some demented creep abused or killed my daughter. I know that my need for justice and to know that the person who commited the crime received a fair and just punishment would be strong indeed. Yes, the man who does this is sick, but each of us, if our society is to survive must take personal responsibility for our actions. It infuriates me when dangerous offenders have at time begged not to be released from prison because they knew they would reoffend and our "justice system" yet again fails us as a society and the poor child or woman who is his next victim.

In the case of a Paul Bernardo, where there is overwhelming evidence of his guilt, the parents of the young women he murdered should have had some say in his sentance. Maybe they would find it in their hearts to forgive him, but there should be some measure of "justice" available to those who lose loved ones. Casteration should be manditory for sex offenders. Maybe just making him be a part of the larger prison population instead of hiding him away where "no one could hurt him" would be just. He would helpless to help himself, just like the women he killed.

To get back to the original topic. I do hope that they find the bastard who is doing this and then I would hope that as a society we would have the balls to cry out for justice.

Guy
 

Makhno

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Nov 11, 2003
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Beyond the Pale
As this thread has turned into somewhat of a debate on capital punishment, let me throw in my $0.02.

I'm opposed to capital punishment under any circumstances. Canada, IMHO, has shown courage and leadership in abolishing the death penalty, which is an abhorrent, brutal, antiquated and barbaric form of punishment, unbefitting a civilized people. We should resist the urge to bring it back, even for the abhorrent disgusting crimes such as the supected serial killer is perpetrating in the Edmonton area at this time. Its a slippery slope to carve out exceptions.

Why do I oppose it?

Two main reasons:

1. Contrary to popular belief, it is NOT a deterrent to murder. Most killings are done in hot blood, or in a drug/alcohol induced haze, with little rational thought given to the consequences. The murder rate in Canada has in fact DECLINED sine abolition. The total number of murders in Canada in 2001 was 554, 167 fewer than in 1975, the year before capital punishment was abolished. In addition, murder rates are generally at least three times lower in Canada than in the United States, where people are fried with frightening regularity.

2. More importantly, there is no such thing as a absolutely certain conviction. Our justice system is fallible, and has been shown to be so in numerous cases. Consider Donald Marshall, David Milgard, and Guy Paul Morin, to name a few. Each of them were ultimately determined to have been wrongly convicted. Each of them would have been dead had we had capital punishment. The death penalty is inherently final and irreversible. What do we say to the families of those we kill wrongly. Oops?


For those that think that it will save the state money to kill rather than jail for life, think again. U.S. research has consistentlyshown that the extra precautions, such as appeals, made necessary by the possibility of executing an innocent person, have resulted in executions being more costly than keeping the individual in prison for life.
 

wolverine

Hard Throbbing Member
Nov 11, 2002
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First off, I think the higher murder rate in the States can attributed more to the wider gap between rich and poor down there. After all, our cities have never had notoriously violent and gang-infested neighborhoods like The Bronx in NY or Compton in LA. Also don't forget that their population is at least 10 times larger.

I would only approve of the death penalty in extreme cases, for the truly remorseless and irredeemable monsters like Clifford Olsen. Other that, the justice system is in dire need of reform. Prison time should be as exactly stated: 10 years means 10 years; life means life. None of this early parole bullshit.

And finally, a good penalty to consider for serial rapists: a humane castration.
 

massagedude

Banned
Dec 30, 2002
35
0
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Calgary
As long as there is no incontravertable way to prove someone's guilt, we have no right as a society to use the death penalty. Ask Guy-Paul Morin or David Milgaard how they feel about the death penalty.

It is not a deterrent, nor does the retribution serve the greater good of society.

Executing someone to uphold the sanctity of life is illogical and immoral.
 

Bueller

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Jul 15, 2003
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Since not everybody has thrown their hat into this rhetorical ring, I propose some new questions:

What is more important, punishing the criminals or rehabilitating them?

True, their inability to participate as functioning members of society has been, if not demonstrated, perceived. However, at the end of their ten year sentence, if those convicted have no skills and no money, how will they re-enter society? What will ten years' hard labour do to reduce recidivism? Please, don't give the tired lines of do-the-crime, do-the-time or punishment-as-deterrent or rehabilitation-as-reward.

My question of what benefit to society execution serves has remained unanswered. Yes, it gives victims (either real or perceived) vengeance, but what does it do to progress society?
 

massagedude

Banned
Dec 30, 2002
35
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Calgary
Pussyman said:
[BI would honestly like to know how you would react if someone in your family or very close to you was a victim. You might not be so ready to forgive or forget. :( [/B]
Gotta agree with Bueller and CD here, PMan ... a lame argument.

Saw NBC Dateline the other night about a man who lost a wife and child to a teen who was street racing. Instead of asking for a life sentence, he pleaded with the court not to send the boy to jail. Instead, he publicly forgave him, befriended him and the two now tour schools to educate students about reckless driving. To him, the betterment of society did more for him than retribution and revenge - which he admits would have likely just left him feeling more bitter and resentful for the rest of his life.

Just my $0.02
 
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